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In all keys?
- Thread starter stratovani
- Start date
What do you mean by "something"? I don't think I've ever heard anyone suggest practicing a specific song in all keys. I have heard people say to practice various scales and arpeggios in all keys, and I would have thought it was fairly obvious that doing so helps prepare you to play new songs that could be in any key.
Everything? But there are rock songs in other keys. F# is good for guitar-based rock.
When I was learning piano as a young child I had to practice scales and arpeggios, etc in all keys. And as far as reading music, you should be able to read something in any key provided (as well as transcribe), but for bass and guitar, I don't really see the point. For both instruments, it is the same forms/positions no matter what the key is, your root is just in a different place....
I mean, If I learned something in D and the singer wants it in Eb, I just move my position up half a step. Not that big of a deal. But at the same time, if I'm playing off of sheet music, I don't find it too difficult to transpose on the fly either (as long as it isn't a huge jump...If you ask me to go from Eb to G#, I'm going to tell you where to go ;P)
I mean, If I learned something in D and the singer wants it in Eb, I just move my position up half a step. Not that big of a deal. But at the same time, if I'm playing off of sheet music, I don't find it too difficult to transpose on the fly either (as long as it isn't a huge jump...If you ask me to go from Eb to G#, I'm going to tell you where to go ;P)
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The songs are different and you will never know witch key will mess up, also training by all board is always better than in tradional chords.
Learning to play comfortably in all keys is an academic exercise that is required to being a musician. If your happy with what you know, great! Don’t confuse that with the lifelong pursuit that comes along with being a musician.
Do it because it makes you uncomfortable. Entering that place daily, consistently, even briefly, is the path to success. I don’t know about you, but my one of my musical goals is to transcend the instrument.
To learn the whole fretboard. We should be able to play all our scales and arps in all positions, all keys, starting from any note (not just the root) up and down 2 full octaves.
Six pages of this something is going on. This is a point I wanted to make, as a literate trumpet player (as opposed to purposefully illiterate bass player) there are Years of books of intervallic exercises and melodies made out of them called etudes that are played in every key, because every key is a different pattern, a different instrument almost. The trumpet bible is the Arban book, and it is basically that, in every key all the time. It's basic musician training so you can play everything, not just blues based rock.
It also makes your brain form new synapses and your awareness expands that natural way.
I was in a americana rock band as trumpet plr and 1/2 the songs were in F#. For me on a Bb instrument that means G#, which some people consider tricky but I found easy-peasy, mostly valves 2&3 to 1 or 2 pivots with open C natural and and the 7th is open G (no valves down). Lots of fun in G#. valve pattern for G# is 2&3, F 1, C open, C# 1&2, D# 2, F 1, G open, G# 2&3, you obviously see what's going on there, right?
I give a thumbs up to every response. It's all valid. You get to choose the level of musicianship you aspire to, or need or want to be. Music and making music and playing with other musicians is more than just knowledge. The spirit in your playing and the intent, feel and fit for the music is the end game. Beside 'skill level' means alot of things. Cliff Williams, Jaco, Geddy, Stanley Clarke, Michael Anthony - equals in the eyes of bad-assery, feel and fit for the gig IMO.
This reminds me of a story, hopefully I do it justice here.....
My high school has a very good music program and offered a class called Jazz Improvisation as an elective.
My junior or senior year me and all my guitar playing buddies signed up. As did one young woman who played trombone in the jazz band.
The class was taught by the teacher in charge of instrumental music, who was formally trained at North Texas State.
This was 1991 or 1992 or so, so I think guitar was less embraced by academic music educators than now and music educator training is still fairly centered on band and orchestra instruments.
The first week the assignment was “learn the major scale in all 12 keys”
This is a fairly difficult assignment for the trombone requiring lots of memorization and very challenging to the players ear. Accordingly the young woman who was called on first struggled.
The music teacher then called on one of the guitar players, who railed off all twelve scales without difficulty.
the teacher’s face took on a look that said “Oh no, I have a year’s worth of lesson plans I need to re-write”
what he actually said was “Wait, you mean all you do is play the same fingering pattern and just move it around on the neck?”
My high school has a very good music program and offered a class called Jazz Improvisation as an elective.
My junior or senior year me and all my guitar playing buddies signed up. As did one young woman who played trombone in the jazz band.
The class was taught by the teacher in charge of instrumental music, who was formally trained at North Texas State.
This was 1991 or 1992 or so, so I think guitar was less embraced by academic music educators than now and music educator training is still fairly centered on band and orchestra instruments.
The first week the assignment was “learn the major scale in all 12 keys”
This is a fairly difficult assignment for the trombone requiring lots of memorization and very challenging to the players ear. Accordingly the young woman who was called on first struggled.
The music teacher then called on one of the guitar players, who railed off all twelve scales without difficulty.
the teacher’s face took on a look that said “Oh no, I have a year’s worth of lesson plans I need to re-write”
what he actually said was “Wait, you mean all you do is play the same fingering pattern and just move it around on the neck?”
It's just better to get used to it now. If you wait until you have to learn it, it will be too foreign to you.
You may only have the intentions of playing in those keys now, but one day you may join another band where the lead singer is just not comfortable in a certain key and wants to drop or raise it a half step.
You may only have the intentions of playing in those keys now, but one day you may join another band where the lead singer is just not comfortable in a certain key and wants to drop or raise it a half step.
I saw a Victor Wooten video where he describes just learning and knowing chromatic scales.
Makes great sense if you think about it.
That's the great thing about knowledge, you can either learn things or not, it's your choice.
Dirk
Makes great sense if you think about it.
That's the great thing about knowledge, you can either learn things or not, it's your choice.
Dirk
Lots of replies along the lines of "playing in every key is easy; just move your hand 1 fret and play the same fingerboard shape." While this perspective isn't "wrong" and please don't think I'm calling anyone out personally, I would like to offer a different perspective:
In baseball, a versatile player who can 1) run, 2) catch, 3) throw, 4) get base hits, and 5) hit for power is called a "five tool player."
In music, a versatile "five tool player" is a musician who can 1) read, 2) write, 3) sing, 4) hear, and 5) play.
If you can play in a different key by shifting a fretboard pattern up or down the neck, but you don't know what notes you're playing, and you can't read/write/sing/hear in all 15 keys, then you are a "one tool player" in my opinion. And there's nothing really "wrong" with that. Mariano Rivera had a legendary career throwing basically the same pitch every night. Dave Roberts became a Boston sports icon for stealing one base. There's nothing wrong with being a "role player" and using your limited skill set to help your team succeed.
But some musicians long to achieve mastery. We want to be confident, versatile, five-tool musicians. We're not famous, but we want to approach our minor-league local gigs with the same dedication and focus that our musical heroes bring to their big-league stadium tours. The turning point in my musical education was when I realized, I might not become a great player overnight, but I can study how the great players learned, and follow the same path they took. It's boring to hear the same advice over and over again (especially when that advice is a lot of hard work, like practice in every key, or learn to read & write, or transcribe your favorite albums) but the reason this advice has become cliche is because it's true, it's a proven path, and it works!
In baseball, a versatile player who can 1) run, 2) catch, 3) throw, 4) get base hits, and 5) hit for power is called a "five tool player."
In music, a versatile "five tool player" is a musician who can 1) read, 2) write, 3) sing, 4) hear, and 5) play.
If you can play in a different key by shifting a fretboard pattern up or down the neck, but you don't know what notes you're playing, and you can't read/write/sing/hear in all 15 keys, then you are a "one tool player" in my opinion. And there's nothing really "wrong" with that. Mariano Rivera had a legendary career throwing basically the same pitch every night. Dave Roberts became a Boston sports icon for stealing one base. There's nothing wrong with being a "role player" and using your limited skill set to help your team succeed.
But some musicians long to achieve mastery. We want to be confident, versatile, five-tool musicians. We're not famous, but we want to approach our minor-league local gigs with the same dedication and focus that our musical heroes bring to their big-league stadium tours. The turning point in my musical education was when I realized, I might not become a great player overnight, but I can study how the great players learned, and follow the same path they took. It's boring to hear the same advice over and over again (especially when that advice is a lot of hard work, like practice in every key, or learn to read & write, or transcribe your favorite albums) but the reason this advice has become cliche is because it's true, it's a proven path, and it works!
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I agree it helps to be a "a versatile "five tool player". I am not disagreeing that if you have more of a skill set then you will have more to offer. But in response to your baseball analogy, the highest paid baseball players are specialists, not the five tool players.
Just saying......
Look How Much More Pitchers Earn Than Everyone Else
I agree it helps to be a "a versatile "five tool player". I am not disagreeing that if you have more of a skill set then you will have more to offer. But in response to your baseball analogy, the highest paid baseball players are specialists, not the five tool players.
Just saying......
Look How Much More Pitchers Earn Than Everyone Else
True, and great point. However, in defense of my metaphor
- The biggest contract in baseball belongs to Mike Trout, who is most definitely a five-tool player.
- I believe the highest paid pitcher is Zack Greinke, who is a good hitter and a fast runner.
- Biggest total earnings by a retired player was A Rod.
No need to start a thread just to rationalize why you're unwilling to do something. If you don't want to become a better musician, carry on not putting in the work. Sounds like you've got it covered.
