Industrial Strength Industries?

[Mr. Foxen]

General idea of information on the internet is to figure if stuff will work before dropping the cash. What we've established is they'll work quite well in the bedroom. Here is a list I've thrown together of things that don't work well in the bedroom:

The Ampeg 8X10 Bass Cabinet
The Acoustic 360/361
The Guild/Hartke Aluminum 2X10 &4X10 Cabs
The Sunn 2000S Series
The Euphonic Audio Cabs, still what most measure by the VL-208

 

[hifibass]

Sir, my initial response response to your words would have been edited in the sake of gentlemanly disagreement.

Just because you READ A SPEC in one certain way DOESN'T MEAN that's the way we hear it!

I couldn't give a DAMN about this company, I really don't...... but are your ears so much better than the bass playing community? Feel free to PROVE IT, Simple Techno ARROGANCE! I know my sound, it even may be yours, who knows? This may SUCK for me, but I'm willing to LISTEN! I'm OPEN to everything.

Pic a day in the next 24 hours and I'll meet you in their booth at NAMM and you can tell all of us how they failed you. I mean it, if it sucks I'll admit it, it's your rep at stake, not mine.... I just play bass. KWS

 

[Korladis]

I'm not sure why you're so worked up about it. You asked if anyone had experience with them. No one seems to, but some cursory inspection of these cabs' specs reveals that they are about 10db less efficient than most musical instrument cabs. That means they need more power to get to the same sound pressure (loudness) level.

I really don't see why you are taking criticism of their design personally, when it has nothing to do with you.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Just because you READ A SPEC in one certain way DOESN'T MEAN that's the way we hear it!

Yes, it does. I don't know if you can sight read, but if you can you know that you can play any song without having ever heard it. An acoustical engineer can read an SPL chart and know what any cab will sound like without ever having heard it.

 

[pfschim]

Yes, it does. I don't know if you can sight read, but if you can you know that you can play any song without having ever heard it. An acoustical engineer can read an SPL chart and know what any cab will sound like without ever having heard it.

aaaannnnd ... IT'S ON!

note: apropos of the recent 'should the amps thread lighten up" I actually like these threads where passions rage and words take serious flight !


(cough cough .. go Bill)

 

[T-Bird]

Hi.

The good news is they have SPL charts. The bad news is that they reveal that these are loaded with hi-fi subwoofer drivers that have 10dB less sensitivity than musical instrument drivers.

That was the first thing I looked at when browsing the site, sure is a very strange marketing approach.

The drivers construction looks suspiciously alike the 15" CSS one I have, too bad it's a 87dB 2KW driver with dual 1 Ohm voice coils. Until I have an amp that can drive that sucker, I won't even consider making a cab for it.

There's a reason this isn't done more, and BFM kindly told us as why.

Why is it so damn hard to people to get it?
It's not like these are the first folks to use car subs or Hi-Fi drivers in MI applications, and realized that it just doesn't work as imagined?

Regards
Sam

 

[LiquidMidnight]

This is a perfect thread to reference that cabinet with like four 10s, two 12s, two horns, and two 15s of whatever the hell that specific company tried to shove into a single box.

 

[seamonkey]

The nice thing is this company is honest with charts. At least you can read the charts and determine if they're a fit for your application. You have a reference point in the charts no matter how much they don't approach what pro-audio drivers are capable of. There's a lot more manufacturers who have been in the business for years, who still make you guess and refuse to publish a chart.

 

[JimmyM]

I can sight read and can attest to the truth of what Bill says about it. I'm also learning to interpret charts and graphs, and I'm seeing that yeah, those charts and graphs do indeed tell you how stuff is going to sound before you hear it if you can interpret them. Thinking that science is useless doesn't mean that it is.

As for all those cabs you named off, yes, they are not perfect scientifically, but other than the Bassman cabs which sounded good but farted out way earlier than the better bass cabs of the day, those cab designs worked. But these aren't Ampeg 810's, dude. Can't even put them in the same basic league.

Also, you protest way too much for someone who supposedly doesn't "give a damn" about the company. Obviously you do.

 

[hifibass]

No, I'd just like someone to give them a good test before damning them to failure, that's all. I never heard of them before either.

 

[miiitch]

i don´t see the point in using small cabs with small speakers, that are actually able to produce quite a lot of output, but need a big fat amp to reach these volumes

example:
91db sensitivity (the bigger one at 1W)
101db @ 10W
111db @ 100W
121db @ 1kW
124db @ 2kW

that´s a lot, eh?

 

[CL400Peavey]

No, I'd just like someone to give them a good test before damning them to failure, that's all. I never heard of them before either.

Please buy everyone on the forum a few of these so we can give you a proper review.

I dont have cash to throw around and buy any gear that I havnt played through. Hell I dont even like to drive more than an hour to go look at something if I havnt read some really good reviews on it. Its also not some random guys review that im interested it. Its the input of someone who can look at specs and give me excellent guidance (BFM, Greenboy, or any of the engineers that frequent this site), or its the input of someone who has played every single amp from a certain company and can tell you, "hey I love brand XYZ, and most of their stuff is great, but as an endorsed artist I will say that amp ABC is crap." This is how you educate yourself on gear that you have never seen or even heard.

 

[JimmyM]

I read the specs and so did a couple of the engineer types on here...that's pretty fair. If Bill says that it needs 10x the wattage that a 110 with an actual musical instrument speaker would need to get the same SPL's, then it is so. I also totally don't get what the purpose of mixing neo and alnico is, and it totally smacks of marketing rather than useful creativity. So I don't need to do what you consider fair and give it a good test...a fair interpretation of the specs tells me it isn't going to work. No matter how good it sounds, if I need 1000w to get it to the level of your average 110 bass cab being powered by 100w, I'm out.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

No, I'd just like someone to give them a good test before damning them to failure, that's all. I never heard of them before either.

By the same token one might be inclined to build a Zeppelin out of lead to prove that it won't fly, rather than accept the advice of those know-nothing aeronautical engineers.

 

[CL400Peavey]

By the same token one might be inclined to build a Zeppelin out of lead to prove that it won't fly, rather than accept the advice of those know-nothing aeronautical engineers.

Take yer book lernin' and yer fancy city ways and git yer self home now ya hear?

 

[Korladis]

As Bill and Jimmy have said, if they're being honest with those sensitivity specs (and why would they be so bad if they weren't?), it's just not going to be very loud given the same amount of power as a cab with musical instrument drivers. That's what sensitivity is all about. Even my bog standard, old technology Ampeg 1x15 beats out their bass-o-matic as far as sensitivity goes.


If a car's specs tell you it has really low horsepower in relation to its weight, do you really need to drive it to be able to tell that it's not going to win any drag races?

 

[GrowlerBox]

All the verbal BS on their website aside, assuming those SPL charts are accurate (and properly referenced, which isn't shown), they do appear to have a pretty even response throughout their range and reasonable bass extension. Power is fairly cheap these days, and if the drivers can actually handle what they say they can, then they might not sound terrible.

In a way, I hope they have some success -- it'd be nice if other manufacturers followed their lead on the provision of charts. It's hard for me to judge relative prices from over here, but $600 for the 110 and $895 for the 3-way seem about in the ballpark for small-run cabinets. If they sound good.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

All the verbal BS on their website aside, assuming those SPL charts are accurate

They're not without their inconsistencies, leading me to believe that they're not very well versed in how SPL charts are measured. But that's another matter.

 

[will33]

Well, the neo/alnico thing is the kind of voodoo guitards blow the rent on. But, I give these guys a +1 for publishing charts and seemingly honest specs about the product offered and, aside from useless spl for the application, using intelligent design. That's miles ahead of most companies.

Too bad they'd be drowned out by an unmic'd banjo and are thus pretty much worthless as live use MI speakers.

 

[GrowlerBox]

Too bad they'd be drowned out by an unmic'd banjo and are thus pretty much worthless as live use MI speakers.

Yep, but them sum'beeyatches kin be LOWD.

If you have enough juice, and if the speakers can take it, they claim max SPLs of 118 and 124 dB respectively. Again, not sure how they obtained their figures, but that'd be loud enough for me, I think.