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Double Bass Intermediate Bass Recommendations/Advice for non-musical parent

T

Toni Ritenour

Sep 10, 2018
8
3
#1
We live in Houston, Texas. My son began playing the bass in his middle school orchestra in 6th grade. He is now entering 8th grade. He loves the bass and in addition to his school orchestra, he is starting his first year playing with the Houston Youth Symphony - Preparatory Orchestra.
The school hooked his mom up with the first bass - a new rental from the local music shop. We've been paying $65/mo. for a new plywood bass. I believe he upgraded once to the 1/2 size. I do not know the manufacturer of his current bass.
He just topped 5'6" at 13. His instructor now says he needs a new intermediate full (3/4) size bass. I'm definitely good with that but we work with the same local shop. After 2 full years of rental, we still owe $532. We can put all our rental funds towards the new bass but it's not like there was discussion of which bass - just - it will be $5000 - $1500 that we've paid already can be put towards the new one. Whoa! I want to fully support but I'd like to do a little due diligence on a $5000 instrument. So I've self educated myself all I can in 2 days - plywood - hybrid - fully carved - got it.
I called the shop and they don't appear to know much about double basses. They called me back to say the $5000 bass would be a Howard Core C40 with a carbon graphite bow and is the Jr. High top line bass and High school intermediate. He states that top line high school models are $7-8000. A little sticker shock for me.
I didn't find any reference to Howard Core in Talkbass. They claim it is a fully carved bass. Only one other website comes up for an internet search and the C40 bass is $3150 (without bow I assume).
I was thinking a hybrid would be the next step. I don't want him to be on a sub-par bass but for $5000 I'd think I have other options to consider.
They got his mom all excited and they were rushing to order it and I slowed everyone down a notch. I would like to take him to the Quantum Bass Store here in Houston and see what they have to offer. I'm not sure he knows enough to 'know' a good bass from a really good bass but I certainly want his opinion to count. I agree with putting his hands on them all and what feels good. I'd also like to wait and discuss with the bass 'person' at the HYS.
What are your thoughts, suggestions, opinion of a Howard Core vs....? If it's a solid instrument and how he needs to go - great!

I certainly appreciate this site and thanks for your help!
 
#2
I don’t have direct experience to rely on, but the Core basses are almost definitely made in Asia. Howard Core is an importer who retails a variety of instruments under his own name.

I get the impression that you believe that the retail music business is shady. That would be correct. Parents who do not themselves play can often be talked into spending large amounts of money, as you saw.

Is he learning bass from an actual bassist? If he is it would be well worth your while to sling the teacher a few bucks to chaperone you as you shop for a bass and to put word out on the grapevine that your son is looking for an instrument.

I shall refrain from commenting on rental programs.
 
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#3
I've had students buy hybrids from the String Emporium that cost about 1/2 what you're talking about - somewhere around $2500 - that sound and play great and, though I'm not a luthier, seem very solid to me. You could, IMO, go at least most of the way through college with one. Decent strings and case too. I'm sure there are other options too for less than 5 grand. Go to their site and email or phone. I hear they're nice folks. I expect others will chime in here with suggestions too. It's sort of a pet peeve of mine when instrument dealers rip off well intentioned parents by either upselling or selling cheap junk that doesn't work.
 
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#4
KUNGfuSHERIFF said:
I don’t have direct experience to rely on, but the Core basses are almost definitely made in Asia. Howard Core is an importer who retails a variety of instruments under his own name.

I get the impression that you believe that the retail music business is shady. That would be correct. Parents who do not themselves play can often be talked into spending large amounts of money, as you saw.

Is he learning bass from an actual bassist? If he is it would be well worth your while to sling the teacher a few bucks to chaperone you as you shop for a bass and to put word out on the grapevine that your son is looking for an instrument.

I shall refrain from commenting on rental programs.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the response.
Not sure if 'shady' is the word... but... hey, it's my kid and they are a business.
The Core website certainly gives you the impression that they hand make them there but I did note the only claim was violins being manufactured there. I picked up that they are imported and some ribbons and bows (not with rosen) are added.
I agree, I will wait and see how the HYS works out. I know that on certain practices, they will be split out to practice as basses. I hope that will be a 'bass' person!

Is $7-8000 really the expectation for a high school musician?

Thanks again!
 
#5
lurk said:
I've had students buy hybrids from the String Emporium that cost about 1/2 what you're talking about - somewhere around $2500 - that sound and play great and, though I'm not a luthier, seem very solid to me. You could, IMO, go at least most of the way through college with one. Decent strings and case too. I'm sure there are other options too for less than 5 grand. Go to their site and email or phone. I hear they're nice folks. I expect others will chime in here with suggestions too. It's sort of a pet peeve of mine when instrument dealers rip off well intentioned parents by either upselling or selling cheap junk that doesn't work.
Click to expand...
I don't want to seem cheap but I saw the same. I think one plan would be to pay off his current bass, keep it for a back up and buy insurance on a hybrid new one. Then if we have to leave new one for repair, we have the backup emergency bass...
Thanks!!
 
#6
Here is what I would do.
Pay one of the Rice U, Shepherd School kids $100-150 to come with you and give advice.
Toni Ritenour said:
We live in Houston, Texas. My son began playing the bass in his middle school orchestra in 6th grade. He is now entering 8th grade. He loves the bass and in addition to his school orchestra, he is starting his first year playing with the Houston Youth Symphony - Preparatory Orchestra.
The school hooked his mom up with the first bass - a new rental from the local music shop. We've been paying $65/mo. for a new plywood bass. I believe he upgraded once to the 1/2 size. I do not know the manufacturer of his current bass.
He just topped 5'6" at 13. His instructor now says he needs a new intermediate full (3/4) size bass. I'm definitely good with that but we work with the same local shop. After 2 full years of rental, we still owe $532. We can put all our rental funds towards the new bass but it's not like there was discussion of which bass - just - it will be $5000 - $1500 that we've paid already can be put towards the new one. Whoa! I want to fully support but I'd like to do a little due diligence on a $5000 instrument. So I've self educated myself all I can in 2 days - plywood - hybrid - fully carved - got it.
I called the shop and they don't appear to know much about double basses. They called me back to say the $5000 bass would be a Howard Core C40 with a carbon graphite bow and is the Jr. High top line bass and High school intermediate. He states that top line high school models are $7-8000. A little sticker shock for me.
I didn't find any reference to Howard Core in Talkbass. They claim it is a fully carved bass. Only one other website comes up for an internet search and the C40 bass is $3150 (without bow I assume).
I was thinking a hybrid would be the next step. I don't want him to be on a sub-par bass but for $5000 I'd think I have other options to consider.
They got his mom all excited and they were rushing to order it and I slowed everyone down a notch. I would like to take him to the Quantum Bass Store here in Houston and see what they have to offer. I'm not sure he knows enough to 'know' a good bass from a really good bass but I certainly want his opinion to count. I agree with putting his hands on them all and what feels good. I'd also like to wait and discuss with the bass 'person' at the HYS.
What are your thoughts, suggestions, opinion of a Howard Core vs....? If it's a solid instrument and how he needs to go - great!

I certainly appreciate this site and thanks for your help!
Click to expand...
 
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#7
Isn't Quantum Bass Center in Houston? That's where I'd go for an instrument. A real bass shop.

Haha...I see you know about Quantum. They will get you started. Have an experienced double bassist/teacher help with instrument evaluations. Possibly the cost of a lesson.

Figure out your budget. I've had high school students with $1.5k-$20k instruments depending on what their parents can afford.
 
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#9
Eric - it's not about how much I can afford, it's about getting the right instrument for him. I want him to have a good instrument that he can excel with but the idea of him toting around a $10K much less $20K instrument makes my heart race just a bit. I would be more fixated on him banging it up than his playing! Hahaha! Guess that means I can't afford it. :D
 
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#10
Its all in the setup of the bass. If you go to a "real" shop like Quantum, they can set up even a cheap bass to play easily and evenly. Its so important to not have a bass the student is fighting, and as a result not enjoying playing it. Usually through a luthier or bass oriented shop you can find less expensive basses that play well and sound good. And.... GOOD FOR YOU!!! Nice to see parents caring enough to come here looking for good advice and wanting to do all this for your kid. Bravo!
 
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#12
Toni, I can assure you that with proper assistance you can get an instrument that is good enough to carry him all the way to a top school like Rice. The bass I had through my freshman year at Rice would be about 5-7 k these days. A better one would not have made me any better, but the setup was awful.

You may also ask if any of the newly arrived freshmen or sophomores are looking to sell the bass they auditioned on. Very often they upgrade once there.

Also, there is no need for two basses at this stage.


Toni Ritenour said:
Eric - it's not about how much I can afford, it's about getting the right instrument for him. I want him to have a good instrument that he can excel with but the idea of him toting around a $10K much less $20K instrument makes my heart race just a bit. I would be more fixated on him banging it up than his playing! Hahaha! Guess that means I can't afford it. :D
Click to expand...
 
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#13
B String said:
Its all in the setup of the bass. If you go to a "real" shop like Quantum, they can set up even a cheap bass to play easily and evenly. Its so important to not have a bass the student is fighting, and as a result not enjoying playing it. Usually through a luthier or bass oriented shop you can find less expensive basses that play well and sound good. And.... GOOD FOR YOU!!! Nice to see parents caring enough to come here looking for good advice and wanting to do all this for your kid. Bravo!
Click to expand...
Thank you, I appreciate the compliment. He's a 'bonus' kid and I certainly hit the jackpot.
Yes, we are planning a trip to Quantum to meet and check out what they have - didn't know they existed until now!!
Thanks for your help.
 
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#14
wathaet said:
Toni, I can assure you that with proper assistance you can get an instrument that is good enough to carry him all the way to a top school like Rice. The bass I had through my freshman year at Rice would be about 5-7 k these days. A better one would not have made me any better, but the setup was awful.

You may also ask if any of the newly arrived freshmen or sophomores are looking to sell the bass they auditioned on. Very often they upgrade once there.

Also, there is no need for two basses at this stage.
Click to expand...
I wondered if there wasn't some sort of outlet for used upgrades! Even if there's only 1-2 bass players graduating high school or upgrading in college - it seems there should be quite a few up for grabs!
I just need to know where to start looking.
Thanks!
 
#15
lurk said:
I've had students buy hybrids from the String Emporium that cost about 1/2 what you're talking about - somewhere around $2500 - that sound and play great and, though I'm not a luthier, seem very solid to me. You could, IMO, go at least most of the way through college with one. Decent strings and case too. I'm sure there are other options too for less than 5 grand. Go to their site and email or phone. I hear they're nice folks. I expect others will chime in here with suggestions too. It's sort of a pet peeve of mine when instrument dealers rip off well intentioned parents by either upselling or selling cheap junk that doesn't work.
Click to expand...

I've had two students with SE instruments. My luthier suggested them as very well made and sounding, and I have to agree. The Wan Bernadel and larger Rogeri models are fine Chinese carved basses and less than $5k.

There was a recent sale in the classifieds asking $3k for the Wan. SOLD - 2009 Wan Bernadel (Fully Carved)
 
#17
A couple of things: If I read the original post correctly, he is currently playing a 1/2 sized bass. So yes he needs to upgrade to a 3/4 size. I don't know how good he is or how committed to bass he is which makes the next step a bit more difficult. A well set up and well constructed instrument are what is most important in his next steps. A better sounding instrument can certainly inspire but easy to play and won't fall apart under the less than careful handling of a teenager are most important. There is a very large range of instruments that meet those criteria well below the range you were being directed to. If your son is serious, I would suggest finding a good teacher outside of the school and after a some lessons have them help you find the next bass. The band world and upright bass world are both full of pitfalls and opportunities that an unbiased pro would be of great help.
 
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#18
RSBBass said:
A couple of things: If I read the original post correctly, he is currently playing a 1/2 sized bass. So yes he needs to upgrade to a 3/4 size. I don't know how good he is or how committed to bass he is which makes the next step a bit more difficult. A well set up and well constructed instrument are what is most important in his next steps. A better sounding instrument can certainly inspire but easy to play and won't fall apart under the less than careful handling of a teenager are most important. There is a very large range of instruments that meet those criteria well below the range you were being directed to. If your son is serious, I would suggest finding a good teacher outside of the school and after a some lessons have them help you find the next bass. The band world and upright bass world are both full of pitfalls and opportunities that an unbiased pro would be of great help.
Click to expand...
He's pretty serious and sounds pretty good to me! He practices everyday of his own accord and for 13 that says a bit to me. He auditioned for the Houston Youth Symphony and has only had one practice but he really liked the atmosphere and enjoyed it = looking forward to more. He's had outside school lessons and is also being tutored by the High School instructor. Of course, I'll talk with him as well... but I'm not sure I'd consider him unbiased - nor his current teacher since she sent him to the violin shop in question. I"m a believer that you can't be too educated.
Thanks for your input!!
 

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