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Internalizing odd time signatures

B

bassbrother666

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Feb 13, 2013
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#1
Hey!!
What exercises do you recommend to better internalize odd time signatures, that can be done without the bass, i mean "feeling " the time signatures, instead of continuously "counting" the beats ... I dont know if i explained myself properly but i think you get the idea :)
 
#2
I understand your question, but to be honest, in my case it's almost on a song-to-song basis. Being from the Balkans region, certain meters (7/8 and 9/8 for example) are pretty much natural to me, bot those with odd number of quarter notes do present problems.
Like I said, certain pieces become comfortable quicker than others, which probably has to do with the overall arrangement and particularly what the drums and bass are supposed to do.
 
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#4
Counting was the way for me. Some beat are easier to get than other. Listening to music with odd time sig.

EDIT : If you play with a drummer, more often than not, they will do something to spell the rythm very well as a lot of drummer don't know what to play over odd time, so they do something like hitting 8th note with one cymbals or something to make it more than obvious and punch every change.
 
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#5
bassbrother666 said:
Hey!!
What exercises do you recommend to better internalize odd time signatures, that can be done without the bass, i mean "feeling " the time signatures, instead of continuously "counting" the beats ... I dont know if i explained myself properly but i think you get the idea :)
Click to expand...
IMO the best way is to listen, then identify and then clap the beat. Here are some videos that could help.
video 5/8 time signature - Bing video To internalize a rhythm we have to listen to a bunch of examples of that rhythm. With 5/8 the question is how will we divide the 5 for this song? Should it be 2-3, or 3-2? In our band the drummer along with input from the keyboard make this decision.

We do not run up on odd time signatures that much and when we do the drummer and keyboard normally work this out at practice. I let them talk it out and go with what they decided upon. Then mark the sheet music with what we will use for this song. No point in reinventing the wheel every time we play that song.

Good luck.
 
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#6
MalcolmAmos said:
how will we divide the 5 for this song? Should it be 2-3, or 3-2?
Click to expand...

^^^This is one of the most important aspects of understanding odd meters: How are they subdivided?

Nearly every odd meter can be subdivided as some combination of 2s and 3s. Think of 2s as short and 3s as long. So a tune like Paul Desmond's "Take Five" (5/4) is subdivided as 3+2, or long short. A tune like John McLaughlin's "Lila's Dance" (20/8) is subdivided as 3+3+3+3+3+3+2, or long long long long long long short. Understanding and internalizing that rhythm is far more important than actually counting the number of beats per measure.
 
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#7
skwee said:
Concentrate on downbeats. Really think about growing to the One--this should result in a strong sense of "big beat".
Click to expand...

This x infinity. If you can hit the one, strongly, every measure, you're doing better than most. I play in a jazz trio with a great berklee-graduate drummer. When we do odd sigs (Take Five, for instance) we are listening to each other, making eye contact and wordlessly committing to each other to hit that downbeat.

After that, subdividing like Bob_Ross sez.
 
#10
GastonD said:
I understand your question, but to be honest, in my case it's almost on a song-to-song basis. Being from the Balkans region, certain meters (7/8 and 9/8 for example) are pretty much natural to me, bot those with odd number of quarter notes do present problems.
Like I said, certain pieces become comfortable quicker than others, which probably has to do with the overall arrangement and particularly what the drums and bass are supposed to do.
Click to expand...
Balkan music has some great meters. Sandansko for the win!
A key for n/8 rhythms, for me, is to feel the pulses of 3 and 2. Many rhythms of these are folk dances. Grandmothers in Bulgaria can dance in 7/8 and 11/8, so there's no reason to be scared of those signatures.:bassist:
 
#15
The key for me is internalizing the key accents of the feel in effect. Some time signatures like 5/4 7/4 7/8 5/8 can be phrased with 4 distinct accents and when that happens it's more like counting a perverted 4/4 :)
Of course other time signatures are likely to have more or less accents but if you concentrate on those rather than the mechanical 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 kind of thing, it can be a LOT easier and a lot more feel based.

I tried to demonstrate this in the following vid (please excuse the length. It covers a lot of stuff):

 
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#16
Lownote38 said:
Count until you don't have to anymore.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I agree with this post right here quite a bit. I can cite a personal experience that brought me to this realization...

I remember seeing Stickmen in concert, and I was mesmerized by a familiar hypnotic rhythm (I later asked drummer Pat Mastelotto, who confirmed that that the song was a cover of King Crimson's "Lark's Tongue in Aspic, Part II"). At first, the technical bassist in me latched onto the incessant 1-2-3/1-2-3/1-2/1-2 pattern. I kept counting until I simply didn't anymore! I was feeling the rhythm inside, and the metronome track in my head disappeared.

In Buddhism, there is a story: first there is a mountain, then second the mountain is the sum of all of its components (earth, rocks, snow, etc.), but finally it becomes a mountain again. That's how I look at things like this. First there is a song, second the song is the sum of all of its rhythmic and theoretical components, and in the end, it's just a song again! However, you need to go through all three steps to get there.

I hope that helps...even just a wee bit!

Best,
~Nick "Klaus" G.

​
 
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#18
My opinion.

If the drummer gets it you will have way less of an issue. If the drummer hasn't internalized it and has to count, then you will have issues - not because they aren't getting the right beats but because it will not be as natural and flowing and you will have to work harder to compensate.

I don't do much in my current band, I have two songs that have odd bits in them. With our old drummer I really had to work to get them to sound natural. With our current drummer it just happens.
 
#19
Odd meters are almost always comprised of various combinations and orders of 2 eighth notes and 3 eighth notes. I feel these like a "limp" on one beat. If 7/8 is 2+2+3, then it feels like 3/4 with an extra eighth note on 3. If feels like walking with a limp. Step, step, longer step. If 9/8 is 2+2+2+3, then it's 4/4 with a limp on 4. And so on.
 

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