Double Bass Intonation feel on long scales

[Bruce Calin]

On a related issue, I work with students who frequently play on different instruments at home and school and similar situations. My thought is to try to play whatever bass you're playing with as good intonation as you can. None of them are exactly the same in my experience. I've talked to players who believe they shouldn't deviate from the spacing and positioning of their main instrument no matter what to avoid issues when playing it. I don't let the students use the "different bass" excuse and encourage listening and adjusting. Others may differ, but I think that's the best approach.

 

[the_Ryan]

On a related issue, I work with students who frequently play on different instruments at home and school and similar situations. My thought is to try to play whatever bass you're playing with as good intonation as you can. None of them are exactly the same in my experience. I've talked to players who believe they shouldn't deviate from the spacing and positioning of their main instrument no matter what to avoid issues when playing it. I don't let the students use the "different bass" excuse and encourage listening and adjusting. Others may differ, but I think that's the best approach.

Oh god no, I think forcing your hand into a position that is out of tune on all basses except yours would hurt much more than help in the long run. That's basically teaching you to rely solely on muscle memory and hand position and to completely ignore your ears: muscle memory and hand position are very important, but that doesn't really matter if what you're playing isn't in tune.

 

[Bruce Calin]

Oh god no, I think forcing your hand into a position that is out of tune on all basses except yours would hurt much more than help in the long run. That's basically teaching you to rely solely on muscle memory and hand position and to completely ignore your ears: muscle memory and hand position are very important, but that doesn't really matter if what you're playingy isn't in tune.

Yes, this is my opinion but it's interesting that some good players I know are very fixed on the other opinion. They are also often oldtimers(like me) who learned the strict Simandl positions and relate everything to that school. I try to teach(and play) with more flexibility.

 

[Wasnex]

Yes, this is my opinion but it's interesting that some good players I know are very fixed on the other opinion.

I think that's probably a mischaracterization. First of all, the hand is not held in a fixed rigid shape. Yes, the arch of the fingers of the claw is stable, but the spacing between the fingers must adjust as you play up and down the neck. When your hand is properly calibrated, this adjustment happens automatically while you are playing...so your intonation is good and few corrections are required.

When I can hear my instrument clearly, I can adjust on the fly. But, in large symphonic ensembles I generally find it impossible to hear well enough to adjust. In this situation, I rely more heavily on hand calibration. This calibration is achieved through practice.

Here's an example:
I used to switch between fretted bass guitar, upright bass with a pickup, and an electric upright. Switching to bass guitar did not impact my intonation, but switching back and fourth between UB and EUB could be problematic in some settings.

In big band I was part of the rhythm section and played loud enough that I could adjust intonation on the fly. So I could easily switch back and fourth between all three instruments. In concert band I primarily functioned as part of a larger bass section. So I played at a volume level that allowed me to blend properly. I frequently could not hear well enough to adjust on the fly. So I had to rely more heavily on hand calibration.

There was some material we performed in concert band that I would have preferred to play on EUB. When I first got the instrument, I took it on tour. But what I found was playing the EUB significantly degraded my intonation for section work on the UB. My priority in concert band was the section work, so a week or so before tour prep began I put the EUB away and pulled out Simandl to work on calibrating my hand to the UB.

 

[Bruce Calin]

I think that's probably a mischaracterization. First of all, the hand is not held in a fixed rigid shape. Yes, the arch of the fingers of the claw is stable, but the spacing between the fingers must adjust as you play up and down the neck. When your hand is properly calibrated, this adjustment happens automatically while you are playing...so your intonation is good and few corrections are required.

When I can hear my instrument clearly, I can adjust on the fly. But, in large symphonic ensembles I generally find it impossible to hear well enough to adjust. In this situation, I rely more heavily on hand calibration. This calibration is achieved through practice.

Here's an example:
I used to switch between fretted bass guitar, upright bass with a pickup, and an electric upright. Switching to bass guitar did not impact my intonation, but switching back and fourth between UB and EUB could be problematic in some settings.

In big band I was part of the rhythm section and played loud enough that I could adjust intonation on the fly. So I could easily switch back and fourth between all three instruments. In concert band I primarily functioned as part of a larger bass section. So I played at a volume level that allowed me to blend properly. I frequently could not hear well enough to adjust on the fly. So I had to rely more heavily on hand calibration.

There was some material we performed in concert band that I would have preferred to play on EUB. When I first got the instrument, I took it on tour. But what I found was playing the EUB significantly degraded my intonation for section work on the UB. My priority in concert band was the section work, so a week or so before tour prep began I put the EUB away and pulled out Simandl to work on calibrating my hand to the UB.

My point is that I have discussed this with players who will not adjust to a different instrument even if they can hear themselves because of the belief that it will negatively affect intonation on their own bass if they make alterations in their accustomed positioning and spacing. Students will sometimes use it as an excuse for playing out tune which I discourage in favor of using their ears and adjusting.

 

[Derek Kay]

I've had a similar problem switching from UB full size, to EUB 3/4 size, both D neck. Never mixed the two again.

I also stood, rather than sat, throughout an entire eisteddfod, simply to keep and improve my intonation as a mainly jazz player, standing at gigs. Playing orchestral arco standing certainly produced a noticeable improvement for me.

Watching Gary Karr as a young player is one of my treasured memories.

 

[Mark_T]

eisteddfod

Had to google that one