Intonation in relation to core wire size?

[andare]

You didn't alter the front edge of the E nut slot by any chance when widening it. Can throw things off

I didn't. How would I even do that?

 

[Prodigus Filius]

I didn't. How would I even do that?

what did you widen the nut slot with?

 

[HaphAsSard]

I noticed bigger strings require more length.

I'm still trying to intonate the E string from the Labella 1954s. It keeps going sharp. The saddle is pushed back a lot, the spring is all bunched up and I may have to shorten it. The other 3 intonated to almost the same length and way shorter than the E. Very strange.

Is it the long-scale version?
There have been reporting of the short-scale 110 being problematic:
https://www.talkbass.com/posts/23083840/
(No mention of it alone being significantly far from the other three though.)
Have you tried removing the spring entirely?

 

[andare]

Is it the long-scale version?
There have been reporting of the short-scale 110 being problematic:
https://www.talkbass.com/posts/23083840/
(No mention of it alone being significantly far from the other three though.)
Have you tried removing the spring entirely?

Long scale. Its hard to bend the E over the saddle. There's enough room to intonate. It just seem to shift every few days. I'll take it off and put it back on just in case. Btw the other 3 are a bit sharp now. And the neck needs more relief (yes, not less).
It doesn't seem defective, it's probably the normal break in period

 

[thrashingbass]

I noticed bigger strings require more length.

I'm still trying to intonate the E string from the Labella 1954s. It keeps going sharp. The saddle is pushed back a lot, the spring is all bunched up and I may have to shorten it. The other 3 intonated to almost the same length and way shorter than the E. Very strange.

I do not know if it will help you, Andare, but on my shortie Bronco I had to cut the E saddle's intonation spring a little bit when installing the Ernie Ball Group 1 Stainless Steel Flats (a 110 set). I am sure sonically different enough from the La Bella, but not too dissimilar in construction, *I think*. I thought it was a bad string at first, and was mildly disappointed, but hoping for the best. Once I got the saddle back enough (due to the shortened spring), the intonation is now perfect and the sound great-not dead/warbly/chorusy/problematic at all. This was my first time cutting any bridges spring for any reason, but I wanted it to be perfect, and there were little risks involved.

The A was almost maxed out as well, but I didn't need to shorten the spring-little adjustment required for the D & A, oddly enough (I thought.)

 

[AEVAREX]

Update on my original post.

Got the DDT's installed resulting in no change in saddle position from the SS Lo Riders of the same gauge. Intonation was spot on and actually better across the length of the board.

Beyond that I am absolutely enamored with them so far and provided they hold longevity, as DR's usually do for me, I've found my new strings after the last 15 years strictly SS Lo Riders.
Can't believe I waited so long to try them

Note to self, get out of your box now and again no matter how comfortable it is in there!

 

[iiipopes]

The core of the string, if large enough, will produce variance in the harmonics. Search the threads for posts by Dr. Kemp of St. Andrew's University, Scotland. This is especially true the shorter the scale gets, as reported above. It is also more apparent with flats because of the additional stiffness to the string that the flat ribbon wrap imparts to the string.

The rule of thumb used to be to move the saddle back by about the total diameter of the string as a starting point to fine tune intonation.

String stretch, especially if the nut slots are not optimal, can cause notes on the first three or four frets to be sharp. Check the nut and the spacing. I have had basses that needed intonation shims, even with a proper nut, to bring the witness point effectively closer to the 1st fret, and conversely, I have a bass that it was too close to the first fret and my luthier had to put a shim between the end of the fret board and the nut to bring everything into proper proportion so the bass would intonate all the way up the fret board.

Instead of moving a bridge, I have also trimmed the intonation screw and spring to allow lower string saddles further travel back to get proper string intonation.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

...posts by Dr. Kemp of St. Andrew's University, Scotland.

Two of those threads, here and here, are mostly about a related issue and the solution via "distributed mass". Those threads are very messy but one could focus on only the best posters (please pardon the expression). Both @iiipopes and @micguy said that that theory makes sense, and that's enough for me even if I hadn't read the research paper itself, not the sensationally worded newspaper article cited at that first link.

But we have other threads, from about four years ago, that talked about the problem of string stiffness generally (not just the core) causing higher harmonics to go sharp. It's long-established science.

Of course, the way this sounds is part of our bass tone culture and many people like it. But I was happy to understand this and move toward more flexible strings (speaking of the internal construction, not the tension).

Ok, good luck!

 

[iiipopes]

Of course, the way this sounds is part of our bass tone culture and many people like it. But I was happy to understand this and move toward more flexible strings (speaking of the internal construction, not the tension).

Ok, good luck!

Thanks for reinforcing the difference between tension and flexibility.

 

[andare]

But we have other threads, from about four years ago, that talked about the problem of string stiffness generally (not just the core) causing higher harmonics to go sharp. It's long-established science.

Is that why the E string in my Labella Jamerson set always sounds hollow and sharp despite registering in tune? It's especially evident at the 10th fret

 

[LetItGrowTone]

@andare, I'm not sure what descriptive words to use, but yes. And you can see it with a good tuner.
iStrobosoft has a plugin - I don't remember the name - that shows multiples of the fundamental in the columns.

Funny, the first bass strings I ever bought - after reading a lot on Talkbass - were short scale Jamerson's, 760M-S. I wasn't happy with them after a while, and that led me on a long journey.

 

[andare]

@andare, I'm not sure what descriptive words to use, but yes. And you can see it with a good tuner.
iStrobosoft has a plugin - I don't remember the name - that shows multiples of the fundamental in the columns.

Funny, the first bass strings I ever bought - after reading a lot on Talkbass - were short scale Jamerson's, 760M-S. I wasn't happy with them after a while, and that led me on a long journey.

To be fair, I hear the same weird tone quality with other flats (Fenders and Chromes) but to a lesser degree, plus those Es are 100 gauge, not 110 (and the Jamersons have thicker cores than the other Labellas, apparently).

 

[LetItGrowTone]

Yes, I didn't intend to criticize La Bella specifically. I like them a lot.

 

[kgbeast]

Abnormally far saddle setting for intonation can be caused by lack of witness points or that the string does not start at the face of the nut but rather somewhere deeper in its slot and perhaps the nut needs a little adjustment. Equally so it can be a saddle problem. The specific string can cause variety in the saddle setting, but it is not likely that different brands of string can maintain the same disparity.
In many bridges it is possible to swap the saddles, maybe you can try that to start. Nut troubleshooting is harder unless you have another nut to try, even if it is not perfect for the bass. You just want to see if it intonates closer to expected.