IP112/EX112 users...enough volume?

[Scott McArron]

Cables are correct but it sounds like for whatever reason your mod isn't working.

Is the Mic Level Out supposed to be scorching hot too? Found out that's why the soundguys at the outdoor gig had my bass cranked so high, they've never encountered a DI that hot before.

Same thing last night at the club gig. DI out (mic level) was screaming hot. No review until after tonight's gig. I might even wait until after Sunday's gig, too. I'm really trying to give this thing a chance.

The band after mine, the bass player was using an Ashdown head into a Berg HT322. Gotta say, it sounded pretty good!

 

[foderaman]

With My Millennia STT-1 I have to use a Inline Attenuator on the DI also.I use the AUdio Techica set at - 10 dbs and it attenuates enough to get the Gain at the Main Board OK.The problem is that alot of the High end Tube Pres and Tube DI's are made for recording purposes which is normally a +4 db signal and most power amps seem to worl better at a reduced signal say -10 db.I now the max input on the IP is with a -3 db Input signal.This pertains to Balanced XLR and Balanced TRS outputs.Unbalanced output are normally -6 less than Balanced.Try using the Unbalanced cord Jim sent with amp and see if you IP works any better?You still may need to use a attenuator with your DI Though!

 

[Scott McArron]

With My Millennia STT-1 I have to use a Inline Attenuator on the DI also.I use the AUdio Techica set at - 10 dbs and it attenuates enough to get the Gain at the Main Board OK.The problem is that alot of the High end Tube Pres and Tube DI's are made for recording purposes which is normally a +4 db signal and most power amps seem to work better at a reduced signal say -10 db.I now the max input on the IP is with a -3 db Input signal.This pertains to Balanced XLR and Balanced TRS outputs.Unbalanced output are normally -6 less than Balanced.Try using the Unbalanced cord Jim sent with amp and see if you IP works any better?You still may need to use a attenuator with your DI Though!

Thanks a lot for the help!

I ordered a -10 db pad from GC last week. They said it would be here by now, but of course, it's not.

As for the unbalanced cord from Jim, I don't have one. He wasn't shipping them out with the IP's back when I got mine in eary spring of '06. I talked to Jim about the specs of the cable he uses and went on a week long search in the Seattle area to find one. Nobody has a TRS to XLR cable with a hot '2' pin, which is what makes his cable really work in this situation. When I send my IP310 amp back in September to get the new program, he'll send me one of his cables back with it. The only problem, is that by then I'll probably have exceeded my time limit on any chance of returning the Summit if it doesn't work for me (which after the gig last night is still up in the air).

I'm not sure if this ultra-clean optimized-for-recording pre is going to work out for me in this paticular band (70's - 80's funk/pop cover band). It could work in many other situations for me, but as I just recently started going back to college more than full-time (20+/quarter for engineering) after a 10 year hiatus, I don't have any income and can't keep any piece of gear that's not absolutely essential to my gigging requirements for the next couple of years.

I'm seriously considering using the preamp section of an MB LMII (or even an EA Micro300...?), so I can use the amp for smaller jazz gigs, since as of now I don't have a small rig to handle the more intimate gigs.

If I had the income of TomB, none of this would be an issue. I could just bring the appropriate piece of gear to each gig and not have to make what little I've got work for every situation (if that makes sense).

The first two sets last night, I couldn't hear my bass. It was loud as hell, but I couldn't tell what I was playing half the time on the upper 'A' and 'D' strings (I heard the new IP program targets this area a bit), and I've been told it has incredibly complex mids, I just can't hear 'em. It's like it's too transparent. The band after us was using an Ashdown into a berg 322. It wasn't really the sound I'm after, but all the notes had body; you couldn't miss 'em.

Another reason why I'm on the fence is because I don't even really know how the Summit sounds (of course it is supposed to be transparent), but I don't have an even playing field yet to tell if it's really any better than just plugging in directly to the IP.

I'll have more experience with it tonight and tomorrow, then after I get my -10db pad this week I'll be able to play with it next weekend at another fine gig, though smaller and no hollow stage to compare it with.

Argh! I just want to forget about my gear and start playing some music!

 

[chadds]

I think something is wrong with the unit. The XLR out is just perfect. Send it to Eric he would be more than happy to check it out. Forget this cable conversation. The output of the TD-100 is TRS. Use it as it was designed. This is a well designed piece by the producers of highly thought of studio gear. Give them the chance to make it right. Every description you have given sounds like an anomaly. There are many of these out there with and without the Berg Mod and no one has mentioned these symptoms, shop owners or bassists.
Peace.

 

[chadds]

I tried the LMII and had an underwhelming experience. Voltage differences impedances and phases of the moon affect the joining. The tone was so so the tone controls acted subtley. When I tried the iAMP800 I liked the sound but it was a little muted. It didn't sound as responsive as it does with it's output section and speakers. I know someone else here likes the LMII with his IPs. For me it doesn't work. I have heard the LMII cookin live with cabs and loved the sound.
I will try the F1. I may try the EA Micro 300 but it doesn't have a DI output gain as the 800 does. So my hopes are low.
My experience with a Dem HPB-1 or the Kern is that when connected to an IP the combination acts like one unit.

 

[Scott McArron]

My experience with a Dem HPB-1 or the Kern is that when connected to an IP the combination acts like one unit.

Thanks for sharing your experience with the MB and EA. Saves me having to find out for myself.

I'll definetly give the Summit a chance. I've already got a return authorization to send it back to Summit to get it checked out. What I'm baffled about, is that this was a demo model from Jong, and it's worked perfectly for him! Eric did tell me that he could adjust the output levels to anything I'd like. That's customer service!! This may work out yet...

I'm interested in the Kern quite a bit, but since it's no longer in production it may be very hard to find.

 

[Matt Morgan]

I'm interested in the original question.
Let's talk IP112/EX112 volume.
Thanks.

 

[Joelc73]

I'm interested in the original question.
Let's talk IP112/EX112 volume.
Thanks.

The IP112/EX combo get's very loud. It also has has a voicing that cuts through quite well. The 310 is bigger and wider (and has more booty overall) but I can't imagine not being able to hear myself through the 112 IP/EX rig.

JC

 

[GRoberts]

The IP112/EX combo get's very loud. It also has has a voicing that cuts through quite well. The 310 is bigger and wider (and has more booty overall) but I can't imagine not being able to hear myself through the 112 IP/EX rig.

JC

night after night, gig after gig, my IP/EX112 stack is PLENTY loud. I have more volume than I need. I gig three nights a week, every week with this rig. The one thing I'm also learning is that this rig sort of blooms and develops a bit more velocity out in the room opposed to what I hear on stage. So I have to be constantly vigilant about not playing TOO loud! We do a lot of Steely Dan, Tom Petty, Earth, Wind and Fire, fusion/funk and Motown covers. we play at typical club/bar volumes which is sometimes loud. Typical venues seat aa hundred to a couple hundred. I've even used this rig outdoors which I find to be the most challenging in terms of fullness. No sweat. Use a preamp front end and you'll have all the gain you need. Gary

 

[tombowlus]

The first two sets last night, I couldn't hear my bass. It was loud as hell, but I couldn't tell what I was playing half the time on the upper 'A' and 'D' strings (I heard the new IP program targets this area a bit), and I've been told it has incredibly complex mids, I just can't hear 'em. It's like it's too transparent.

Wow, that just doesn't sound right.

 

[alexclaber]

It was loud as hell, but I couldn't tell what I was playing half the time on the upper 'A' and 'D' strings (I heard the new IP program targets this area a bit), and I've been told it has incredibly complex mids, I just can't hear 'em. It's like it's too transparent.

I had a similar problem when I went from an SWR Grand Prix (which has a scooped mid response with ~8dB cut @ 250Hz) to an Avalon U5 (completely flat response). The solution was to get out a screwdriver and raise the pickups on the treble side whilst lowering the bass side. A relatively small tweak but it made all the difference!

Alex

 

[Scott McArron]

Wow, that just doesn't sound right.

Hey Tom, I was able to correct this by some massive EQing. I got a great tone out of it once I cmpletely rolled back my bass knob (around 12db's , I think) and the treble about half way from center detente (maybe 6 db's? I can't remember the specs), then I could hear everything from top to bottom evenly.

So far, IME, it seems that when I plug directly into the IP the balance and EQ is perfect, but when I go into the Summit I actually have to cut the lows and highs quite a bit (which is funny, since tube pres already tend to truncate those areas... . I always strange experiences with my gear... . I don't even want to get into how my Mike Lull has acted up over the first year I had it...but that's another topic).

 

[Scott McArron]

night after night, gig after gig, my IP/EX112 stack is PLENTY loud. I have more volume than I need. I gig three nights a week, every week with this rig. The one thing I'm also learning is that this rig sort of blooms and develops a bit more velocity out in the room opposed to what I hear on stage. So I have to be constantly vigilant about not playing TOO loud!

+1!

I can't imagine ever having volume issues with the IP112/EX stack. You should feel very comfortable about that .

i do agree whole-heartedly with Roscoe5; The IP112 blooms a little further out in the room in comparison to the IP310. I was always walking a fine line between really hearing myself, disturbing the the rest of the band, and not putting too much out on the dance floor.

For example, at one particular large nightclub gig we play every few months, if I angle the stack towards the audience the soundguys coplain and take me completely out of the FOH mix. Now, if I angle it sideways as a monitor towards myself and the singers, they would complain that I should turn down. I had to find a sweet spot of angling it somewhere back and to the right of me pointing towards the middle-front of the dance floor. In the last days of my owning that rig, i was just throwing the single IP112 on an amp stand and just using it as a personal monitor. This didn't really work all that well, but at least I'm still friends with the singers ! This wasn't the case in every club we played; this is just an extreme example of the stack's characteristics.

You may want to consider getting a carpeted platform with casters like the one Carvin sells. That would help both transport and on-stage sound. I never did this and it probably would have alleviated the aforementioned issue.

It's not really an issue, per se, but just something to be aware of. Again, plenty of volume.

 

[Scott McArron]

I'm interested in the original question.
Let's talk IP112/EX112 volume.
Thanks.

I don't want to high-jack your thread. Are you still interested in hearing about the Summit/IP combo?

 

[Matt Morgan]

It's good to hear your comments about the volume. I already own one of the Carvin wheeled units that you mentioned and if I do go with the IP112/EX112 rig, I'll definitely experiment with it.

I would like to hear a little bit more about your Summit experience. You're really the first person that I've heard about having issues with it. Most reviews say it's the best thing they've used with the IP line.
Thanks.

 

[GRoberts]

The Carvin carpeted/wheeled platform is EXACTLY the one I use! It works famously with my IP112/EX112! I've use the IP rig with, and without it on an elevated wooden stage. Short story; works better with the IP112/EX112 on the wheeled platform. It isolates it from the stage and I seem to get a fuller/punchier sound. Those hollow bottom/wooden stages seem to rob the low end and muddy things up. Gary

It's good to hear your comments about the volume. I already own one of the Carvin wheeled units that you mentioned and if I do go with the IP112/EX112 rig, I'll definitely experiment with it.

I would like to hear a little bit more about your Summit experience. You're really the first person that I've heard about having issues with it. Most reviews say it's the best thing they've used with the IP line.
Thanks.

 

[Scott McArron]

It's good to hear your comments about the volume. I already own one of the Carvin wheeled units that you mentioned and if I do go with the IP112/EX112 rig, I'll definitely experiment with it.

I would like to hear a little bit more about your Summit experience. You're really the first person that I've heard about having issues with it. Most reviews say it's the best thing they've used with the IP line.
Thanks.

At this point, after some experience with 4 very different kinds of gigs, I can say that the Summit is an awesome piece of equipment and is as good as everyone says it is.

Now, am I going to keep mine? I'm still on the fence. From my experience, I've learned that some EQ would be very nice with this unit, a volume knob that can be reached at a whim (say, inbetween beats 2 and 3 when the vocalist gives you "that look," also, I didn't realize it didn't have a volume knob when I bought it ) , or an HPF as I have to roll off the lowend completely and the high end considerably on my Bart 18-volt Pre to get an even from top-to-bottom sound. That's just me experience so far. Also, an attenuator, maybe around 10 db would be very helpful with this unit if using a TRS cable (which is what Eric from Summit highly recommends).

+ : It sounds amazing, very clear, fits in my gig bag.

- : IME, IMO, sounds very clear (could be positive or negative depending on what you're after), the output is really hot and needs an attenuator of some kind when using TRS cable (not necessarily the case with Jim's provided unbalanced cable), no EQ (obviously ), no Effects Loop, and doesn't fit in my gig bag which means I'll need to go back to the rack with most other dedicated bass pres. These may not be issues for anyone else.

If the feature set is what you like, and you like the way it sounds on basstasters.com then I'd pick one up, certainly!

 

[Joelc73]

Scott,

Have you tried a TD-1 yet with your IP rig?

JC

 

[Scott McArron]

Scott,

Have you tried a TD-1 yet with your IP rig?

JC

No, but I'm sure it would be phenomenal! I just can't afford that at the moment.

 

[Joelc73]

No, but I'm sure it would be phenomenal! I just can't afford that at the moment.

I hear you... It's not an inexpensive piece - but it does sound great.

I've heard so many stories of people having trouble getting the right pre-amp for their IP's but we haven't had those issues. There are a couple of pre amps that I like a lot with the IP's and that are painless right out of the box.