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IP112/EX112 users...enough volume?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Matt Morgan, Aug 6, 2007.

  1. Matt Morgan

    Matt Morgan Fellow Conspirator Supporting Member

    Oct 21, 2001
    Plano, TX
    For the IP112/EX112 users out there:

    Have you encountered any situations where you said to yourself "Wow...I wish I really had a (insert amplification system here) instead because I'm really getting burried here."

    If so what type of gig were you playing and what did you wish you had instead? IP310? HS410? Epi 410UL?

    I think over the last week, I've read just about every IP post on TB and I just wanted to get some recent opinions.

  2. chadds


    Mar 18, 2000
    Perhaps Hogarth (I know I got that wrong) will chime in because he switched from the IP112/EX112 to the IP310.
    When I tried them next to each other there was no comparison. The IP310 was bigger and wider in sound and seemed to not even breath hard. I was able to with a Roscoe5 make the IP112/EX cringe a little.
    I had a perfectly fine iAMP800 and two CXL112s. I was looking to replace my two SWR Bass 750s and two GIIIs. The iAMP had spoiled me with it's articulation and overall quality of sound.
    I have read the posts where folks say the IP112/EX112 is sufficient. I believe them but I have not heard them live. Where I to hear them I might not favor their tone at that volume. I love clear reproduction and I want the grit or drive to come from my hands. Headroom gives that to me. Speaker area does as well. I'm not 100 yet so I enjoy big sound even if the gear is not feather light.
    Conversely I've use the larger IPs in small settings and it is amazing how responsive like a small rig they can be.
  3. Matt Morgan

    Matt Morgan Fellow Conspirator Supporting Member

    Oct 21, 2001
    Plano, TX
    Similar to your comments, I'd like to hear from people that have used the larger IP rigs in smaller venues as well.
  4. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    The IP112/EX112 is certainly as loud as I would ever need, provided reasonable PA support when necessary. It is also far louder than you'd expect from two 1x12's.

    That said, the IP Large cabs definitely sound 'bigger', more open, more forceful, and more dynamic. The IP112/EX112, though, is more focused and punchy.

    But does the IP112/EX112 rig offer 'enough volume'? IME/IMHO, most definitely. It's just a matter of personal preference, if you ask me.

  5. Matt Morgan

    Matt Morgan Fellow Conspirator Supporting Member

    Oct 21, 2001
    Plano, TX
    Thanks Tom. Now I want both a large IP and the mini stack!
  6. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    That's the only logical conclusion, really. :D
  7. Scott McArron

    Scott McArron Supporting Member

    (My name used to be Hrothgar, so I think I was referred to above.)

    I recently switched from the IP112/EX112 stack to the IP310 and just got back from my first gig with the latest rig this weekend.

    The stage the large club was about 5 feet high and more than likely, totally hollow. I've played it many times before with my previous stack. Here are the differences I've noticed so far.

    IME, the 'stack' is certainly more focused, and not quite as big as the 310, but still huge for its size. Truly amazing! I absolutely LOVE the sound. One thing I noticed about it, is that I was having a hard time getting the Low B and even the lower noted on the 'E' to be punchy. Keep in mind, this is almost entirely due to the hollow stage! What I had in mind with the IP route was to take less gear to the gig, so i never invested in a gramma pad or product of the like.

    Now the 310. (There was a big difference for me and my bandmates. Most likely it was due to the fact that my 310 was on casters, so alleviated much of the coupling effect with the stage.) The thing I thought was most interesting about this rig, besides how much more open and effortless it sounded, was that I could move all over the stage and always hear myself! I went over to the guitar player on the opposite side of the stage and while he was ripping up some nasty funk lines he yells over to me with a big ol' smile that my bass sounds like it's "omnipresent." The best part is, that it's present all over the stage but never overbearing. Much different with my 112 stack. It was very focused when I was in front, but as soon as I moved I completely lost it. It was a constant battle to find that happy spot where I wasn't too loud for the other members, but I could still hear myself. Stage's fault, so others will have a different experience if:
    1) put the stack on casters
    2) use a gramma pad
    3) use HPF

    I like simple, I don't like hauling lots of little pieces of gear, like gramma pads, dedicated HPF's, etc. So I got the 310. I'm LOVING it!! :hyper: and maybe even more importantly, my band loves it, too! Hauling it is a lot easier as well since I can just roll it, and it fits nicely into my Mits Eclipse hatchback. :cool:

    When I'm not so busy and I can take on those jazz and smaller restaurant/bar gigs, I will most certainly save up for another IP112, which would be the ultimate doubling rig for you URB players out there.

    BTW, this last gig I was using an MXR 80 for volume control, EQ set flat. But my Summit TD-100 arrives today and I'll have the chance to gig with that setup at an outdoor show this coming Friday.

    Basically, either rig you get, you will be getting, what is IMO/IME, one of the best rigs money can buy.;)
  8. Scott McArron

    Scott McArron Supporting Member

    BTW, IME, the IP112 stack will be plenty loud enough for any gig I can imagine, given PA support for the largest of those, of course.
  9. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Ah, that does clear some things up! :)

    Bingo! That has totally been my experience as well, and the IP153/EX115 performs similarly - if not better - in this regard, IME/IMHO.

    +1 :bassist:
  10. Hey Scott,

    Does the MXR 80 feed a strong enough signal into the input of the IP ?
    Were you using it with a power adapter or does it run on batteries ?

    I tried a Sansamp Bass Driver DI as a line drive into the IP and found that the signal was not strong enough ?

    Are the "stomp box" type preamps sufficient for use with the IP's . I just think the signal sent to the input is not strong enough.
    Any advise or opinions ?

    I don't mean to derail. thought I'd ask seeing it was mentioned.

  11. Scott McArron

    Scott McArron Supporting Member

    It has always seemed strong enough to me to get out of it what I wanted. I will be using a new preamp tonight at rehearsal, so maybe I'll be able to comment further on this. Take into consideration the on-board preamp I'm using is a Bart 18-volt with a relatively high output, trim pot set at the half-way mark. I may tame that down a slight notch with the use of my new pre.

    I was using the power adapter.
  12. Matt Morgan

    Matt Morgan Fellow Conspirator Supporting Member

    Oct 21, 2001
    Plano, TX
    I'm looking forward to hearing what you think of the Summit pre.

    That's the pre that I'm most likely going to get for the system.
  13. Scott McArron

    Scott McArron Supporting Member

    I'll let you know if/when i have any significant developments. I've got an outdoor gig this Friday, and the following weekend is another large club gig, 1500+ heads. so that's a bit of variety there. All gigs I've done several times in the past so I'll know if there's much change by adding the Summit or not. Not sure yet what to expect.
  14. Matt Morgan

    Matt Morgan Fellow Conspirator Supporting Member

    Oct 21, 2001
    Plano, TX
    So Scott, what's the verdict on the TD-100?

    Any other comments from any IP users?
  15. Scott McArron

    Scott McArron Supporting Member

    Hey there, thanks for the reminder. ;)

    I'm not sure yet. I haven't had the chance to really see what its capable of. My experience with it, so far, has been at two rehearsals (in the band leader's studio) and at an outdoor show.

    The outdoor show was last weekend. The sound guys were noobs (or just utterly incompetent). When the set started the bass coming out of the monitor was overwhelming the stage. Once they got that taken care of (after three songs and finally just taking it out completely) the vocal monitors were feeding back the rest of the night. It was a nightmare.

    Anyway, keep in mind we were playing on an elevated outdoor stage and I'm still "learning" how to get the most out of the combo. FWIW, so far, IME, I'm not overwhelmed...yet. :bag: Many people on this forum have said something to the effect that the Summit sounds like plugging directly into the IP but with a little extra "sheen" and tubey warmth. Not in my experience yet. I don't even want to talk about what I thought about my sound from that gig. :scowl: It wasn't good.

    In fact, my experience, so far, has been very different. I believe it is still linked to the output issues I've been having. I've talked with Erik, Jim, and several people on this forum via posts and PM about this issue. My results up to this point (I'm running a TRS cable from the B-Modded Summit to the Berg): 1) at rehearsal, I have the summit at 2:00 for a little extra bite, with an input signal that high I can only have my Berg on either of the first two notches (that's right, about 7:00 - 7:30!!) before things start falling off the shelves. 1st notch = just the right volume, but for some reason it doesn't cut through the mix, 2nd Notch = have to play softer b/c I'm already getting too loud for my 7-piece funk band, still, doesn't punch through the mix as well as plugging into and bypassing my effects pedal (for volume control), IM(limited)E.

    IMO/IME thus far, I'm not getting the full potential from the Berg by not being able to turn up past 9:00 on the power amp (anything louder would massively overwhelm the stage volume); it just doesn't sound good like that. It's clear, but lacks depth and complexity (which is what it is known for!), like it's not opening up. I still don't understand how other people can run their IP's around 3:00 with their Summit, I simply can't imagine doing that with mine, or anywhere remotely close. I'm still waiting for a 10 db pad I ordered which may alleviate the problem.

    Keep in mind, this isn't anybody else's experience but my own. I wish Jim's freakin' line driver would come out and end my frustrations :bawl:, but I'm not counting on that (after talking to him about it).

    I've got a large club gig this Fri. and Sat. so I will be able to give a much more learned review of the Summit/IP. But so far, I like the way I sound plugged directly into the cab a lot better. The sound is more even, I cut through, it's everything I want it to be (minus a little extra preamp boost, a DI, and maybe an EQ/HPF).

    I'll get back to you. ;)
  16. Scott McArron

    Scott McArron Supporting Member

    Oh yeah, the verdict, according to 95% of Summit users, is that it's amazing, complex, beautiful, and works perfectly for them.

    I''m thinking of taking the pre and my bass down to Bass Northwest and give some pres a run through. Maybe I just don't like transparent preamps...?

    I heard an old Sunn amp that was about 3 feet wide on top of a beat-up '73 Fender 410(12?) cab at a blues jam last night. It was beautiful...
  17. GRoberts

    GRoberts Supporting Member

    Jan 7, 2003
    Tucson, AZ USA
    I tend to agree with Scott in the sense that I like a preamp that offers something more than 'transparency.' I am using my MarkBass LMII DI Out as my Preamp driving a Bergie IP112/EX112 stack.

    FWIW - I always roll the Bergie stack on a carpeted platform with casters and I leave it on the platform when I play. This helps decouple the cabs from the hollow/wooden stages. It also makes the stack easy to move around, get behind etc. And I roll in to my gigs, no different than an IP310 with casters. For me, problem solved.

    The IP112/EX112 has proven to be plenty loud enough. In fact, my band mates had a little intervention on me. I was TOO LOUD most of the time. :D
  18. chadds


    Mar 18, 2000
    Cables are correct but it sounds like for whatever reason your mod isn't working. Send it to Eric for a test. Yes for many gigging sessions I like the simplicity of a real bass pre. Oh this is not to deny how good the TD-100 sounds!
  19. Scott McArron

    Scott McArron Supporting Member

    Well, when I was on the phone with Jong, he had me open it up to see if the correctly-colored resistors (or whatever they are) were soldered into the correct spots on the board, and they were. :meh: I'm baffled. I may send it in to get looked at in September when the band takes a vacation.

    No verdict from me yet. We'll see.
  20. Scott McArron

    Scott McArron Supporting Member

    I've thought about doing the same thing, either with the Markbass or an EA amp that I can use with an HT cab for doubling gigs. The IP310 might be a little overkill for a quaint 3-piece jazz combo :eek: :bag: .

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