• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Iron Ether Appreciation Society

#3,681
Taylor Livingston said:
It's not so much an analog/digital thing - really they just work in different ways. The Subterranea is more of a waveshaper - it takes your signal, turns it into a square wave, and uses that square wave to switch a filter at audio rate to generate the "sawtooth" wave. I'm simplifying of course but that's the idea.

The Dubterranea on the other hand really is tracking the frequency and using that to control actual oscillators. In theory this could be done with all analog tech but I promise it would glitch even more and you'd have to keep retuning it as it warmed up throughout a set.

The downside with the Subterranea's approach is that it isn't a very accurate sawtooth, and how saw-like it is varies depending on the note you're playing. So in terms of the harmonics generated it's never going to sound quite like a real sawtooth. The Dubterranea does, but, the downside of its approach is that it's more prone to pitch-tracking errors if you don't play really carefully.

People didn't really seem to like the Dubterranea as much as I would've hoped, which is why I've never made more. There were other pitch-tracking pedals in the pipeline too at the time, which I decided to shelve given how that went. It's just a much harder problem to solve than people might appreciate - not just making it track well for my instrument and my playing style, but every instrument and every playing style.

Edit: unrelated but I just noticed I've officially been on Talkbass for 20 years.
Click to expand...

Congrats on your 20 years Talkbass Anniversary hahaha!

As far as pitch tracking goes, are you aware of this company that makes audio controlled oscillator chips: ACO100 - Second Sound They seem pretty keen on providing pitch tracking solutions to other manufacturers, and theirs seems pretty solid with respect to tracking. I'd be really interested to see a pedal builder take that tech and make something like the DubT with a huge range of oscillator choice. Second Sound offers a pitch to CV / Midi pedal, but I think a lot of people would prefer something in the DubT format that is just a box with really great sounding and tracking oscillators without any extra bells and whistles (which I thin is the appeal of the DubT).

I struggled with the tracking of the DubT, but I LOVED the waveforms and choices it offered. For a while I ended up sending a pure sine wave from my Source Audio C4 into the DubT, which took advantage of the excellent tracking of the C4, and gave me all the sweet waveshapes from the DubT.

I found that the DubT actually tracked lows as good and often better than any other octave pedal I have tried, I found where it really struggled was with tracking higher notes. Not meaning any of this as a slag, just figured I would share my feedback since the topic came up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: labeledbass and Charlie Tuna
#3,682
I think the Dubterranea is really cool, I just wish more were made because people sell them for $500-800, which makes them impossible to get. That reason alone might be why most people aren't interested in the pedal.

Also I would be fully behind any new pitch/octave synth pedals that Taylor invents. He's got a very creative mind when it comes to pedals.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: fivestringgecko and Admiral Chew
#3,683
mrgreenlantern said:
I think the Dubterranean is really cool, I just wish more were made because people sell them for $500-800, which makes them impossible to get. That reason alone might be why most people aren't interested in the pedal.

Also I would be fully behind any new pitch/octave synth pedals that Taylor invents. He's got a very creative mind when it comes to pedals.
Click to expand...
I thought you said Dubterraograph when you mentioned those prices.. geez.

Does the FMeron use the same tracking method as the DubT? I have to get around the envelope generator to use the FMeron as a general up octave, or down depending on the Mod, but it seems to track waaay better than any other IE pedal I've used. That almost sine wave it produces sounds so good, it's just hard to incorporate it sometimes in day2day music - I've bought/sold 3 of the dang things so far..
 
#3,685
Taylor Livingston said:
Yep, it's exactly the same. I can't really account for why perceptions of the two are so different, but as a maker you gotta listen to your users, not argue with them.
Click to expand...

After having the FMeron, I think that the nature of FM synthesis covers up most perceivable issues with tracking, so it seems to track better than the DubT. I find that using the DubT with an envelope filter also provides the impression of better tracking
 
  • Like
Reactions: Batrachos
#3,686
Taylor Livingston said:
Yep, it's exactly the same. I can't really account for why perceptions of the two are so different, but as a maker you gotta listen to your users, not argue with them.
Click to expand...
I've only tried the Poly, FMeron, Divaricator, Oxide, Arcing Prisms, FrantaBit, XD and SubT - unfortunately not the DubT

So my comparison isn't really relavant, let me rephrase that - the FMeron tracks better than any other octave pedal I've tried, COG, Broughton, 3leaf, Ampeg, all of which were/are analog, but still. I can always count on the FMeron to do what I expect.
 
#3,688
Oh there's a ton of interest. The number of people on the lists for the Dubterranea and Dubterrograph combined would equate to 2 or 3 years' work for me (although obviously not everybody on the list would actually buy one if they were in stock today). I get messages asking when they'll be back all the time. I just don't want to sell people something that a lot of them aren't going to like once they actually get it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gonzkal, fivestringgecko, Bassgeer and 9 others
#3,690
Taylor Livingston said:
Oh there's a ton of interest. The number of people on the lists for the Dubterranea and Dubterrograph combined would equate to 2 or 3 years' work for me (although obviously not everybody on the list would actually buy one if they were in stock today). I get messages asking when they'll be back all the time. I just don't want to sell people something that a lot of them aren't going to like once they actually get it.
Click to expand...
I totally understand that. Love your pedals and how you push the boundaries of what's possible. Excited to see what you create in the future
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taylor Livingston and theirishpimp
#3,692
I personally think more of the Divaricator should be made. Out of all the IE pedals, more people have asked me about that one. After all the blenders and fxloops I've had, it's been the most solid, quiet and useful - and I can comfortably say that I CAN NOT use drive pedals anymore without a Divaricator blending them, takes any noise out of the equation.

Come to think about it, I can't even remember the last "new IE pedal", I know the non-painted versions came out, and older versions revised with more features, but I don't think I've been with this company long enough to remember a new design.


OT: WOW - what a blow, just found out Jeff Beck died
 
  • Like
Reactions: droberts444, Charlie Tuna, Waltsdog and 3 others
#3,693
Taylor Livingston said:
Oh there's a ton of interest. The number of people on the lists for the Dubterranea and Dubterrograph combined would equate to 2 or 3 years' work for me (although obviously not everybody on the list would actually buy one if they were in stock today). I get messages asking when they'll be back all the time. I just don't want to sell people something that a lot of them aren't going to like once they actually get it.
Click to expand...
Shucks Taylor. That stinks, but I totally understand. Hopefully there's something down the pike that would be similar. I do second the Divaricator. I'm actually on the list for all 3 of them, and would grab them all as soon as they came out...just sayin'. HAHA!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Admiral Chew and fivestringgecko
#3,695
IMG_8172.jpeg


Consider me an Appreciative member of this Society! Man does this thing sound huge, and definitely tracks better than the Boss it replaced. I've had it probably just shy of two weeks now, and this honeymoon ain't slowing down :)

Plus I had a question earlier today, and emailed Taylor. Dude replied within like an hour! I bought used, so he had no need to help me, and yet he was very happy to. What's not to love?
 
  • Like
Reactions: spufman, SemiDriven, Diddywah and 10 others
#3,697
kranahan said:
XDs are up for preorder!
Click to expand...

I'm in! Pretty coincidental timing as well, since I've been *this* close to pulling the trigger on an Ottobit Jr or a Dusk for a while now, with the idea that I'd run other effects into one and control the LPF with an expression pedal, much like Zach Rizer's demo of the XD, particularly what he does towards the end with an expression pedal here. Don't need sequencers or LFOs, so I think the XD will be "juuuuussst right." :cool:

Pretty excited to be in on the preorder.

5sg.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: gh0st42, Charlie Tuna, The Mush and 3 others

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back