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Is 25 Watts enough...?

#25
My old Beringer 45 watt 10 inch combo was fine with a piano and two acoustic guitars. Until the musical director added a drummer. Even with him playing 'low low dude' I never heard one note I was playing, even with the combo two feet from my ears. We four could have left the room and the drummer probably wouldn't have noticed.
 
#26
Doublesixes said:
Obviously I'm not thinking metal or your typical loud R&R but jazz, blues, folk, country, new age, fusion, classical, etc.

Drummers, the big challenge to us, have tools at their disposal to make their impact less invasive.
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Meh. Drummers playing with brushes is about as fun as a band playing at conversation volume. If I were a drummer, I would use dynamics, but not brushes. Again, what's the point? Just get a bongo player and do some shows with a couple acoustic guitar players. That's about where a 25W rig will fit in. I'm not knocking what you want to do. I'm just stating the obvious that it will limit your gig potential. Not many people want to hear anything popular at volumes that low, unless it's all acoustic versions of those songs in an intimate setting. A 100+ person bar or club? Nope. It just doesn't sell beer or create any fun atmosphere.
 
#27
two fingers said:
Meh. Drummers playing with brushes is about as fun as a band playing at conversation volume. If I were a drummer, I would use dynamics, but not brushes. Again, what's the point? Just get a bongo player and do some shows with a couple acoustic guitar players. That's about where a 25W rig will fit in. I'm not knocking what you want to do. I'm just stating the obvious that it will limit your gig potential. Not many people want to hear anything popular at volumes that low, unless it's all acoustic versions of those songs in an intimate setting. A 100+ person bar or club? Nope. It just doesn't sell beer or create any fun atmosphere.
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Not to get all Lumberg on ya, but I'm gonna go ahead and ... disagree with you here. Like I said already, I use a 100 watt amp, often clicked down a few notches with a power soak, and we certainly don't play bongos and acoustics. We usually play stuff like Tool, Rage, System of a Down, Slipknot, Alice in Chains and Pantera. And we're certainly not at conversational volume.
 
#33
The implicit reason to play loud in a bar situation would be, like two fingers put it, to sell booze and keep management happy. I can certainly understand that but it's definitely a cultural thing dictated by marketing. Our nightly entertainment gravitated towards a state of 'enjoyable confusion' and that's cool but IMO isn't the most conducive condition to enjoy playing music.
 
#34
Haven't read this thread beyond most of the OP. Not going to.

OK, I'm old(er) but wise(er.) Turn 59 this month, so, FWIW.

Totally agree. My favorite clubs here in Seattle (Triple Door and Jazz Alley) both feature great FOH sound reinforcement. The musicians sound wonderful, virtually any seat in the house. Very balanced, no nasty hot spots or places that you can't hear really well. And you can actually talk to your tablemates, or order another drink from your waitperson without shouting. Maybe even shake Dr. John's hand on his way to the green room.
 
#36
Hey don't get me wrong guys. I never said that "too loud" was good. I think in my first post I even stated plainly that it can get out of control. I'm just saying that if you can carry on a conversation at regular speaking volumes only feet away from the band, then that's no fun either. What's the point of a band if you have to stop talking to even hear them? Why not just play elevator music in the bar? To me, there's nothing at all LIVE about a band like that.

Also, bigchief, I use a 100W amp that never gets turned above 3 or 4 as well. But it's an Ampeg V4, (known far and wide as one of the loudest 100W amps on the planet) used with a loud 4-10 cab. Not all 100W amps are created equal.

Either way. Go for it OP. Get yourself a 25W amp. And then spend a lot of time fussing at drummers who refuse to play that quietly. I don't blame them at all.
 
#37
I have gigged a 20 watt tube amp playing jazz with a Crazy8 cab. Works fine in a small, intimate setting. This is appropriate for quiet music that's meant to be acoustic wallpaper. If your intent is to rock louder, you'll need more watts and cab. I just got a Puma 900 and am reminded of days lugging a lead sled. With big watts, you can keep the volume very low but provide the bass with significant "gravitas" in terms of the feel and authority. Very different than 20 watts. Up to you as to whether the difference is worth it. But yes, in the right circumstances with the right music, you can get by with 25watts.
 
#38
Hi.

It seems that it's mostly us older farts who agree with You :).

Volume has almost always been a problem for me as well.


Now don't get me wrong, I absolutely love to play loud, but if that means losing customers and gigs, I'd rather play quieter.

For me, it's always the customers first, THEY pay me for the entertainment I try to provide, so IMHO THEY are the ones who should set the parameters.

The majority of bands (and sound engineers for that matter) don't seem to grasp the concept of an appropriate SPL level for a given situation.

There's also not much that can be done by the sound engineer if there's just a single moron on stage that needs to crank it up.
The weakest link in a chain and all that ancient blabber.

Speaking of drummers, most drummers I know are just too lazy to learn how to play at lower volumes, but thankfully there's been exceptions to that rule as well. Most of them also "want to protect" their hearing, so they use either plugs or muffs. Or both).
They also claim that their drums sound way better if they have something stuffed into their ears. Especially the cymbals.
Sound familiar?? ;).

Fortunately, it's the paying audience that votes who can keep on playing and who doesn't in the long run, so some folks can keep on playing as loud as they like in their caves, while the more adaptive ones get their gigs.
Win-Win situation if You ask me.

Regards
Sam
 
#39
Hey, it doesn't matter what a bunch of dudes on the internet tell you, if you're getting call backs to play again then keep getting down with your bad self. Look at Gene Simmons, Pete Wentz, or Adam Clayton, dudes on here will argue all day about their merit and how they play the instrument wrong until they're blue in the face, but they're packing the house and paying the bills with their music at the end of the day.

Like a wise man once said, if it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid! If you can stroll into a venue with amp in one hand, bass on your back, and not even be breaking a sweat, then I'd say you're doing alright. I'll show up with just a Sansamp if the gig will let me, less setup equals more time to mingle with the local talent.
 

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