jive1
Commercial User
My degree is in Business, and I work as a software engineer. It's a matter of how you parlay your degree, and the real-world skills that you learn outside of school.
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Is a College Degree Absolutely Necessary
- Thread starter greekorican
- Start date
My degree is in Business, and I work as a software engineer. It's a matter of how you parlay your degree, and the real-world skills that you learn outside of school.
As usual, there is (for the most part) a lot of wisdom borne of experience in this thread. I hope the OP reads through it carefully and listens to what is being said.
Yes, I am 18. While this is my decision, you guys completely underestimate my family. The other attractive part of a college-alternative, is that hopefully I can get the hell out of here quicker. Thats not my #1 motive for not going to college, but its definitely up there. I got up at 6 o'clock this morning to drive for an hour to get to work and an hour to get home, and I cannot go out with my friends tonight because my mom said so. Yesterday my curfew was 9pm. The thought of 4 more years of this house scares me.
Never said that education is overrated. College is not the only means of education, you can even educate yourself. I feel that people think college is the only legit form of education. You don't go to college for four years if you want to cut hair, become a carpenter, etc, but there is still education involved. I know they are concerned about me, but they do not quite understand how college works, either.
My dad's been a carpenter all his life. He used to do huge decks, roofing, coordinating and building entire houses, and other large scale projects. He is an absolute pro at what he does, and made a pretty decent living at it. However in the last 5-10 years, he's been doing smaller stuff because of the toll its taken on him. I've seen what your are describing first-hand, so its definitely a major concern.
Never said that education is overrated. College is not the only means of education, you can even educate yourself. I feel that people think college is the only legit form of education. You don't go to college for four years if you want to cut hair, become a carpenter, etc, but there is still education involved. I know they are concerned about me, but they do not quite understand how college works, either.
My dad's been a carpenter all his life. He used to do huge decks, roofing, coordinating and building entire houses, and other large scale projects. He is an absolute pro at what he does, and made a pretty decent living at it. However in the last 5-10 years, he's been doing smaller stuff because of the toll its taken on him. I've seen what your are describing first-hand, so its definitely a major concern.
jive1
Commercial User
I think associates degrees and certifications can be just as helpful, if not more helpful in finding a job than a 4 year degree. It depends on the degree and the job.
The idea that "college is huge a party" is nothing more than a myth. There are only a handful of party colleges in the US, and you can easily look up a list of them via generic google search. Most colleges exist to train you not only in your particular field of interest, but to enhance your general knowledge base as it pertains to life in general.
an anecdotal example: last semester I had to take a human communications course for my general education requirement. Usually I don't think much of GE type classes, so I spend more time on major-specific courses. Despite this, the class ended up being one of the most beneficial learning experiences I've ever had, teaching me the correct way to interact with those around me, enhancing both my ability to get what I want and my receptivity to the needs of others. In short, because I attend college, I have inadvertently become a more competent person.
an anecdotal example: last semester I had to take a human communications course for my general education requirement. Usually I don't think much of GE type classes, so I spend more time on major-specific courses. Despite this, the class ended up being one of the most beneficial learning experiences I've ever had, teaching me the correct way to interact with those around me, enhancing both my ability to get what I want and my receptivity to the needs of others. In short, because I attend college, I have inadvertently become a more competent person.
I'll echo LowEndFriend's sentiment: Keep your options open.
Many years ago, I told my daughter (now an HS junior) this: Think of life as a long corridor filled with unlocked doors. Some enter life with fewer doors (through economic disadvantage, learning disabilities, etc.), but the analogy holds. As you grow up, the choices you make and the education you get determine how many of those doors stay unlocked. It's a subtractive, not additive, process. Don't graduate from HS? Two-thirds (or more) of those doors will now be locked. Don't graduate from college? Half. Don't get an advanced degree? Maybe 20 percent. Commit a felony? 90 percent. Sorry for the simplistic analogy, but you get the idea.
The higher (and more successfully) your educational career climbs, the more options you keep open. You can learn and practice a trade now, and that might work out great for you. If you love it and it continues to provide a living, you're done. But going back to college later in life is a heck of a lot harder than following your classmates.
One word to the wise: Do whatever it takes to graduate with as little debt as possible. Work part time, get grants, beg, live at home, whatever. There's no bigger bummer than graduating with $100K in debt that needs to be serviced.
-jb
Many years ago, I told my daughter (now an HS junior) this: Think of life as a long corridor filled with unlocked doors. Some enter life with fewer doors (through economic disadvantage, learning disabilities, etc.), but the analogy holds. As you grow up, the choices you make and the education you get determine how many of those doors stay unlocked. It's a subtractive, not additive, process. Don't graduate from HS? Two-thirds (or more) of those doors will now be locked. Don't graduate from college? Half. Don't get an advanced degree? Maybe 20 percent. Commit a felony? 90 percent. Sorry for the simplistic analogy, but you get the idea.
The higher (and more successfully) your educational career climbs, the more options you keep open. You can learn and practice a trade now, and that might work out great for you. If you love it and it continues to provide a living, you're done. But going back to college later in life is a heck of a lot harder than following your classmates.
One word to the wise: Do whatever it takes to graduate with as little debt as possible. Work part time, get grants, beg, live at home, whatever. There's no bigger bummer than graduating with $100K in debt that needs to be serviced.
-jb
Given that, why wouldn't you be looking at colleges, especially one far, far away?
I am 32, work as the director of a 501c3 nature preserve and have no degree. I deliberately have no degree. I am educated, but saw no need to pay $50k to obtain information that was available (get this) for free.
I have worked in the Enviro Ed field for about 12 years now, and while it was hard to get my foot in the door, my experience is worth 2x as much as a degree IMO.
I am not a hoop jumper. I cannot buy into a system that I feel is comprehensively flawed.
Go down the list of athletes with degrees from good schools that can't put together a coherent sentence. These schools should be ashamed of themselves, but they are not.
Go down the list of people working in fields that have nothing to do with their coursework. Shouldn't that tell you something?
College is a scam. I wish it were about getting an education, (and to be sure, you can get one there, but that isn't their purpose anymore) but it isn't. In the information age, a dedicated and intelligent person has little need to go IMO.
Of course, it will help you more than hurt you, but I couldn't with a clear conscience contribute to the problem.
I also think that as a society we attend college at an entirely inappropriate age. We should go in our 30's not our 20's.
My thoughts....
I have worked in the Enviro Ed field for about 12 years now, and while it was hard to get my foot in the door, my experience is worth 2x as much as a degree IMO.
I am not a hoop jumper. I cannot buy into a system that I feel is comprehensively flawed.
Go down the list of athletes with degrees from good schools that can't put together a coherent sentence. These schools should be ashamed of themselves, but they are not.
Go down the list of people working in fields that have nothing to do with their coursework. Shouldn't that tell you something?
College is a scam. I wish it were about getting an education, (and to be sure, you can get one there, but that isn't their purpose anymore) but it isn't. In the information age, a dedicated and intelligent person has little need to go IMO.
Of course, it will help you more than hurt you, but I couldn't with a clear conscience contribute to the problem.
I also think that as a society we attend college at an entirely inappropriate age. We should go in our 30's not our 20's.
My thoughts....
For me, it would depend a lot on the person's situation.
If I were reading the resume of someone who left HS, did a 2-year degree, then left and was looking for a job, I would be wondering why they didn't go for the whole 4 years. If they didn't have a good answer, that would be a problem.
On the other hand, if it were the resume of someone who'd left HS to go straight into a job, decided that they wanted to better themselves and put themselves through a 2-year degree while working I would be very impressed and it would be worth a lot.
Agreed, jive--that's what I've seen as well. When considering trades, you really have to take the long view.
On a personal level, I don't think that at all. But in the job market, in the eyes of a potential employer? Not having a college education is a huge disadvantage in the vast majority of fields.
Damn, really? I should have started at your company.
Think of it this way. How many people with college degrees tell their children to work in the trades? How many people who work in the trades tell their children to go to college? There's a reason for that.
FWIW... The reason I stopped at my Bachelor's is that my company will pay for my MBA, part time... I jut need another year of service with my company.
If you can get an education on someone's dime, absolutely do it... there is no doubt in my mind that it's more than worth it. At least consider school part time if someone's going to pay for it.
If you can get an education on someone's dime, absolutely do it... there is no doubt in my mind that it's more than worth it. At least consider school part time if someone's going to pay for it.
That's the worst advice I've ever seen offered, for anything.
In an engineering field, a Professional Engineers license can make you a valuable commodity. Engineering firms are required to have Professional Engineers on staff, and the only way to get such a license is to have an undergraduate degree in engineering.
I think many colleges take advantage of societys view on a college education, and charge more than they should, but to say that college just isn't necessary is completely ridiculous.
jive1
Commercial User
Good points, but for position that requires specific skills, I could give a rats arse if someone took 2 years of gen ed.
For example, if I were hiring a network engineer, and I had a guy with an associates that included a certification and a guy with a 4 year degree in computer science, I would look at them the same. The credits in history, humanities, social sciences, etc. asssociated with a 4 year degree mean nothing to me other than making the guy potentially more interesting to BS with.
Personally, I think college is too long. I believe you can get a bachelors in 3, and enough information and skills to get an entry level job in 2.
Looks like I should learn the US degree system a bit better because I'm carrying some assumptions that aren't relevant on this side of the pond and might interfere with my hiring decisions. Thanks for the heads-up.
It's 3 years for a BEng in the UK, and no gen ed courses. My MEng was a 4 year undergrad masters (think double-major CS/EE in US terms).
Is 2 years enough? Probably not, but I'd lay odds that 2 years college + 1 year on-the-job experience > 3 years college.
I second this. I moved into an apartment during the last semester, and it is surprising how much time my family drained from me. Judging by how much I do now, I gained more than a part-time job through this move.
(also, the freedom to chose what/who happens in your bedroom)
I completely agree with this statement.
Since I was last in a college classroom, I've spent time giving myself a kind of makeshift education by reading quite a few books over the past few years and researching stuff I've always wondered about, no matter what it may be. I've learned a lot about many things since I was last in school. But one thing you don't get by writing papers or taking notes from a lecture is real life experience, whether that is being out there in the workforce or traveling or whatever. I try to live my life as open as possible to different experiences, from which I believe is how you grow as a person. I'm sure most would agree that is the fundamental purpose of an education- to grow as a person. However, is a formal education the only way to grow as a person? No. And I believe that. But as others have said here, the fact is that at the end of the day, the person doing the interviewing is usually going to take the person with the degree.
Do I plan to go back to school? Yes. I plan to one day (hopefully soon) complete my work toward the Associates degree I started on. But that's my decision to do it. Not my parent's, not anyone else's. Sure, my parents have made plain and clear their belief (especially my father) in the value of an education. But you know what? It's my life. I believe life is too short doing something that doesn't make you happy. I know you're getting a lot of (unnecessary) pressure from your family, and unfortunately that happens all too often, where from childhood, children are forced down a certain path. And almost equally as often, it has the opposite effect. I've seen it. It's one thing to guide, but it's another thing to force.
Hopefully you can find a way to do what makes you feel happy and to learn and grow, man. (Okay, I'm done ranting
).
College is by no means a party, and California is not all sunshine and beaches, believe me. And yes college does make you a more educated and well rounded ctitzen. You're an adult so mommy and daddy aren't going to hold your hand, but listen to their advice cause they're the ones than own the house and the car and they didn't get there by slacking off. Both my parents make several hundred thousand a year, and they never paid my tuition and I never got ANY finincal aid so count your blessings that you can afford to go. There is no shame in living at home while going to school in fact it beats the hell out of living in a dorm far from home or struggling to balance school and rent. Just cause you have a "knack" doesn't mean you're going to excel and you never know what you're going to learn about yourself when you go to college I went in dead set on a music degree and now I'm working towards a Pharm.D. IMO this sounds like more of a "I don't want to go to college cause it looks hard and boring" thing. College is not supposed to be fun or easy, Im not saying it has to be torture either some of my best memories and closes friends I've meet in school. But what is all comes down to is to suck it up and stop trying to find the easy way out.
A 2-year or 4-year degree opens doors that will NEVER open for you without the degree.
Many companies (and government, and institutions) CANNOT hire you without a degree. Do you want all those potential positions to be unavailable for the rest of your life?
I probably don't have to point out all the studies which tell you that the average income of those with a degree is many times that of people without a degree.
If money is an issue, go the CC or Junior College route and get a 2-year degree, but make sure that it's a degree which qualifies you to move on to a 4-year later if you wish. That keeps a door open. Then if you want the 4-year degree you can take the last two years online later, while you work. For that matter, it's fine to go out and start working BUT earn the 2-year degree online while you do it.
Degrees are not a scam, they are not unnecessary, they serve a very real purpose and give you a shot at a better future. You should fight, claw and strive to earn one or more than one.
Many companies (and government, and institutions) CANNOT hire you without a degree. Do you want all those potential positions to be unavailable for the rest of your life?
I probably don't have to point out all the studies which tell you that the average income of those with a degree is many times that of people without a degree.
If money is an issue, go the CC or Junior College route and get a 2-year degree, but make sure that it's a degree which qualifies you to move on to a 4-year later if you wish. That keeps a door open. Then if you want the 4-year degree you can take the last two years online later, while you work. For that matter, it's fine to go out and start working BUT earn the 2-year degree online while you do it.
Degrees are not a scam, they are not unnecessary, they serve a very real purpose and give you a shot at a better future. You should fight, claw and strive to earn one or more than one.
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