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Is a College Degree Absolutely Necessary

..... I also don't think that a college degree should trump experience. Unfortunately, my griping on the internet won't change the system, I have to play by their rules.

Now I've seen nepotism, corporate policies, and government regulations trump experience, but I have yet to encounter a time in my life where a degree alone trumped experience in ANY field where making a profit was the goal, and I've worked in entertainment, social work, business, and IT. Especially in the IT field because there is a wide breadth of knowledge that evolves and changes, that real world experience trumps education that could be 1-2 years behind the cutting edge. And for the contracts that require degrees, if a person is experienced enough and is valuable to the company, they will send them to school since it will only add to their profitability and increase what they can make from that worker.

But in the end, education + experience will be the winner most of the time. Why handicap yourself with only one tool, when you can have two. You may be able to do most jobs with just a screwdriver, but if the job calls for a hammer, you should have one. Or else that job will go to someone who does, and probably has a screwdriver too.
 
Not sure if I want to join the military. I have thought about joining as a mechanic and work on jeeps, humvees, tanks, or planes. I don't know what my chances are of actually becoming a mechanic, because I know that no job is guaranteed. I have no desire to get shipped off to Iraq. Call me crazy but I don't want to get shot at, I prefer hunting- deer don't return fire. My intention of joining the military is to learn to work on vehicles, not fight in a war.

My cousin joined the Marines with the intention of being an MP. In the end they pressured him to go to Iraq and he agreed. After getting through boot camp and hating every minute of, he purposefully flunked academic training and was discharged. So I guess he wasn't right for the Marines, but he warned me that they really pressure you into going to Iraq. That makes me a little concerned.

From what I've heard the money is not that bad. I don't know any exact numbers, but I know that if you're smart, you can get out with some decent money saved up. Living on base means no rent, free food and no bills. Everything you make is spending money, and if you're smart you save it up. I've heard lots of stories about guys who spend everything they save and come out of the military with no money.

I am probably not considering this option, but it's worth discussing.
 
My intention of joining the military is to learn to work on vehicles, not fight in a war.

You should not even consider the military. Many people join because they want all the benefits of it but when it's time to deploy, they whine, cry, complain, go AWOL, etc. These are the worst people in the world and they really don't deserve to even live in this country. They really ruin it for those of us who pull our own weight. If you have this attitude (and there's nothing wrong with being opposed to war) then don't join. Go to college/trade school.
Before I get flamed; understand I'm not looking down on those who choose not to join. The military isn't right for everyone-just like college isn't right for everyone. But those who join because they want college money and benefits and job training but then they do whatever they have to do to get out of deployments are the lowest forms of life on this earth. You don't want to deploy? Don't join the military.
 
You sound exactly like I did at your age. I was in the same spot with the same mindset. Smart kid who didn't necessary want to spend four years in school to do something he wasn't in love with.

I was 18 and went right into an Associates program in a technical field a week after I graduated high school. Took 24 hours a semester and got it in a little over a year and a half. I went to work for a major oil refiner, applied myself and have since then gone on to work for the biggest energy company in the world as an experienced professional in supervision. While most of my friends were in the 4th year of their BS programs I already had 3 1/2 years in my field making 100K a year and never quit taking advantage of training opportunities.

At this point in my career (9 years in), I have CE's, ME's, and EE's that report to me and make about 60K less than me. I work with folks that have degrees from everywhere from Princeton to MIT and I still firmly believe degree or no degree, it comes down to the person's work ethic as I sit here with my lowly AAS from a tech school telling them how to do things. Some of the worst engineers I work with are the most educated with horrible work ethics.

My case is extremely rare. I happen to work for a company that will promote anyone within that is a go-getter with knowledge, but I'm routinely told that if I were to go ahead and get my BS then I'm the type that could be in the company's upper management. If you do choose the trade route, then it better be in something that is in demand and will be for the future. My hard work did pay off but there will eventually be a ceiling I hit because of education. My story is the exception to the rule. Go get your BS. If your smart (common sense wise) before you get the degree, then you'll be even better off with it in the long run.
 
Not sure if I want to join the military. I have thought about joining as a mechanic and work on jeeps, humvees, tanks, or planes. I don't know what my chances are of actually becoming a mechanic, because I know that no job is guaranteed.

You're specific role isn't guaranteed, but you're field is. I wanted to work on aircraft. I got to pick that and as long as I passed my training courses I was going to do it. I didn't not get to pick what it was I got to work on though.

I knew guys who never deployed, while I was gone more than I was home. I loved most of it, hated some of it. Would do it all over again.

The military doesn't pressure you... They tell you what to do! Being in the military means doing what you're told. Like it or not. Believe it or not though, you're going to spend the rest of your life being told what to do by someone...

I'm a Marine. Boot camp wasn't a picnic, but as long as you didn't draw attention to yourself by either being overweight or an idiot it wasn't that bad.
 
I've worked construction all my life up untill recently, and it's OK when you're younger, but not something to spend your whole life at because your body will wear out, and you'l get burned out on working in the rain, snow, and freeze. Don't expect to make that much either.

Go to college, and get a degree at anything - it at least shows potential employers that you are reasonably intelligent, and can follow through. You can do construction on the side.

^^^This.

If you take a look at any construction crew, very few will have gray hair. Same thing for mechanics, welders, etc. I've been around the construction and repair trades for many years. IME, your body(or one part of it-especially the knees) does wear out a lot sooner than in other types of jobs.

Since you're a smart guy, how about researching college majors where you can build stuff: robotics, etc? Hey, you might even get interested in psychology where you can help rebuild lives. It's all in how you look at things!

Like what was said before, I concur with the statement "college is good for your brain."

My story is: I graduated in Developmental Psychology (basically child development) from UC Santa Barbara. I did research into a whole lot of areas surrounding how we develop into who we are. My research papers were always considered the best in my class. Subsequent to graduation, I went on to change directions and studied accounting, eventually passing the CPA exam and then moved on to networked PC's and accounting software consulting, putting together systems for all types of business doing design, installations, training and trouble shooting.

What I learned at UCSB has always held me in good stead throughout the years, especially being able to problem solve and writing pretty well w/o too much effort. Bottom line, you never know what opportunities may arise over the years and that somewhere along the line, you may want to change careers. The more you know, the more you know. :hyper:

If you're really into building stuff, seems to me that this would have become evident as you were growing up. Have you had any summers jobs or internships in any of the trades? Do you have any hobbies that included using power tools and large sheets of plywood or reading schematics? Do repair or build basses?

I mean, it's one thing to talk about being interested in something and actually doing it. Do you and your family know anyone that actually is an auto mechanic, welder, carpenter, etc? Maybe they can put you to work so can really decided if you're "interested" in trades or it's just something cool to talk about because you get attention from your family for being contrary. Look into taking an aptitude test to find out where your skills are focused. Since you have teachers in your family, maybe they can find out where the best place is near your home to do this.

Hey, my mom and dad were both teachers/administrators for over 30 years each. I thought that's really not for me. Looking back, it's something that I should have investigated because they got time off and nights/weekends were basically free time.

I went off in other directions where I didn't really have time for gigging and such. Bottom line is that my parents let me choose so I don't have anyone else to blame but myself for my decisions (as it should be) and I've done alright for myself, just wish I had checked things out more thoroughly before I made my decisions.

One alternative is to investigate your local trade colleges and unions to find out exactly what's required to learn the skills and what's available for apprenticeships. Some may require only a couple of years. You can go to college later, perhaps.

One example: maybe becoming an industrial electrician would interest you. One of my long time buddies studied drafting in high school. Basically learned on the job by doing a trade school program and then worked at different companies until he now is the head electrician for a company. He also a great rock guitar player (no guitard here).

IME, doing a lot of home work on all this stuff will help lead you to a better decision. You may change your direction later, but at least you’ll know what the basis was for making your initial decision.

One other thing to think about, college is not cheap and if your parents are willing to pay for it now, possibly they won't pay for it later. That’s something to discuss with them as well. Maybe they’ll agree to still pay for college after you work in the trades for a few years, if you agree to attend college at a specific time in the future. Just an idea.

Once you have all the information available that you can find, start having discussions with your parents, educating them on what you find out. They seem like reasonable people and the more they know about you're thinking about and how you see things, I think they’ll begin to see that you’re a very responsible person and looking to make the best decision for YOU.

Good luck.
 
I am 32, work as the director of a 501c3 nature preserve and have no degree. I deliberately have no degree. I am educated, but saw no need to pay $50k to obtain information that was available (get this) for free.

I have worked in the Enviro Ed field for about 12 years now, and while it was hard to get my foot in the door, my experience is worth 2x as much as a degree IMO.

I'm also the director of a 501c3, on the board of directors of another, and have a number of years experience as a higher ed instructor. On top of that I've got a couple of degrees. I'm 25, however, and bought heavily into the deeply flawed system of higher education.

I find it difficult to see the argument against higher education from most every angle -- if it's at all possible, it can only serve to get you where you're going faster. If it's impossible due to circumstances, that should be viewed as a real shame, not a kind of adversity you triumphed over to succeed.
 
Lots of stuff to respond to:

Arcaidy: Like I said, I'm not really considering joining military, but I have thought about it before. I realize that joining the military but not wanting to be deployed not something you should do. I don't want to fight not because I disagree with war, but because I disagree with the war in Iraq. My opinion has alot to do with what the news and other people say, so no disrespect to anyone who has served in Iraq. I've talked to guys who have been to Iraq and Afghanistan, and they say media coverage is very far from the truth. Noone ever wants to elaborate on it, so I don't ask. I also realize my cousin is best example to base my opinion on. I'm sure he gave the drill sergeants a hard time, and was a general PITA. One of the drill seargeants found out that he tweezed his eyebrows and asked him why his eyebrows look so pretty in front of the entire company (is that the right term?) HAHA. I'm pretty sure he was just not the right person to join the Marines.

TroopFarva: Hunting is not about killing animals that cannot fight back, that was a bad joke I guess (hey, I thought it was funny). Hunting is about freezing your buns off in the woods. If you get lucky, you have some tasty venison to eat at the end of the day.

Stumbo:"If you're really into building stuff, seems to me that this would have become evident as you were growing up. Have you had any summers jobs or internships in any of the trades? Do you have any hobbies that included using power tools and large sheets of plywood or reading schematics? Do repair or build basses?"

I definitely have a reputation for fixing things. My friends, most of whom could not use a screwdriver to save their lives, seem to think I can fix anything. I worked carpentry with my dad for the last 3 summers, practically full time. The work does suck at times, but I learned alot over each summer. I also have a part time job at an Aamco, though I haven't started working on any cars yet. When my friends parent's need work done, they ask me. I have put in airconditioners for my friends mom a few times for example. I also taught myself to do setups, and I have plans for a walnut Jazz Bass body in the making. I was messing around with building a fuzz pedal, but I gave up. I usually finish projects I start, but I lost interest in that one. I don't think electricity is the field I want to get into. I wouldn't say building things is a hobby, but I definitely inherited my dad's ability.

As far my college tuition, I'm going to pay for it. We are going to have to take out a student loan, but there is a chance my parents will be in a better position when I graduate. I'm sure if they could afford it they would help me then, but its looking like thats not going to be the case.
 
Aaahhh. If you haven't spent a 8-12 hour day working on or underneath a car, it's hardly as much fun as it sounds like. There really is no glamor in it...especially when you can't afford to do it slowly. I think until you've done that- for a long time- you should keep looking at college.

Loans aren't a big deal.
 
My cousin joined the Marines with the intention of being an MP. In the end they pressured him to go to Iraq and he agreed. After getting through boot camp and hating every minute of, he purposefully flunked academic training and was discharged. So I guess he wasn't right for the Marines, but he warned me that they really pressure you into going to Iraq. That makes me a little concerned.

.

I don't ever remember being pressured to go to Iraq, but back then we were praticaly pounding on the door to get in. And the marines is pretty good about sending as many people to the sandpit as often as possible. IMO/IME you join the Marines cause you wanted to go to Iraq and break things. If you want to make a career out it go Navy.
 
For the OP,
Lots of sound advice here (and, some hyperbole, too, to keep the thread interesting, I'm sure). Do trades not pay well in the US? I ask because there are many technical colleges in Canada that offer apprenticeships or two-year certificate programs in trades, with the end result being (as far as I know) good job prospects and proportionately 'good' wages. Having spent the past 15 years in the university system as a student, lecturerer, and research assistant, I've encoutered a good deal of student who were not interested (or very unhappy) in being in a university. Some were heavily pressured by parents, others simply thought that going to school was their ticket, so to speak. My view is that unless you are channeled directly into a professional college, i.e., law, engineering, buisiness, etc, the processes of acquiring a Bachelors degree are more about teaching you to learn and think in ways that differ from high school experience, than necessarily imbuing you with commoditable skills. 'Basket weaving college' (colloquially known as Fine Arts) has not earned a lofty reputation for producing top-flight marketing executives, and rightfully so; such a college is for people whose interests differ from those of business students. That, to me, is one of the joys of university: you can choose the direction you want to move in, with a good deal of flexibility. Yes, you will take courses that you detest and find uninteresting/illogical/poorly stuctured, but I'm willing to wager that you will have to put up with some of these same unpleasantnesses in your eventual line of work. Bottom line (for me, and obviously others who have contributed here) is having a degree (or two) generally will not hurt your job prospects and may very well lead to opportunities that would have been unimaginable without some secodndary training. At any rate, best of luck with your decision.
 
I definitely have a reputation for fixing things. My friends, most of whom could not use a screwdriver to save their lives, seem to think I can fix anything. I worked carpentry with my dad for the last 3 summers, practically full time. The work does suck at times, but I learned alot over each summer. I also have a part time job at an Aamco, though I haven't started working on any cars yet. When my friends parent's need work done, they ask me. I have put in airconditioners for my friends mom a few times for example. I also taught myself to do setups, and I have plans for a walnut Jazz Bass body in the making. I was messing around with building a fuzz pedal, but I gave up. I usually finish projects I start, but I lost interest in that one. I don't think electricity is the field I want to get into. I wouldn't say building things is a hobby, but I definitely inherited my dad's ability.

When I was a kid, I was also into building and fixing things. My parents had a strong ethic of self-reliance, so I got to watch my dad doing some woodworking, fixing appliances, plumbing, and so forth. I never got into cars, perhaps because I wasn't allowed to have one. Playing the bass got me into electronics, which became my thing. I was also fascinated with computers and math.

Today, I am an optical engineer and engineering manager. I work with a group of roughly 60 engineers from multiple fields -- electrical, mechanical, computer, and so forth. Our engineers don't just sit at a desk all day. We spend a lot of time in the plant, solving problems, making things work, trying out new ideas, showing people how to do things, talking to suppliers and customers, and so forth.

In reality, a lot of my work is not too far removed from what I enjoyed doing as a kid, except that I now get to play with cooler toys, and get paid for doing it.
 
I'll be graduating in June, and everyone I talk to says that if you don't get atleast Bachelor's Degree, you are not going to go anywhere. Obviously, going to college is beneficial, but I have alot of criticism about how people view college. I'm currently just finished college stuff, my intended major is mechanical engineering. To be honest, engineering does sound incredibly boring, but I suppose that is the only thing I have any interest in studying at college.

A college degree does not automatically make you smart. You could be an idiot, spend all of your college years partying, and barely scrape by with C's. From what everyone has told me about how necessary it is to go to college, it seems like an idiot with a college degree will get hired over someone intelligent and hard-working simply because of a piece of paper. IMO, that is not right.

Most kids I know are expecting college to be a huge party. I'm sure college would sound much more fun if Mommy and Daddy payed to send me to California, and gave me spending money. I will be paying my own tuition, and living at home until I can make enough money to move out. Not exactly looking forward to the next couple of years.

Anyway, the reason I brought this up is that I'm having a dilemma. I'm a smart kid, and could probably do well in college. However, the jobs I'm actually interested in are trades. I have considered being an auto mechanic. I'm kind of interested in carpentry, woodworking, and metal-working/welding. Call me strange, but I like this kind of work. I have a knack for building and fixing things. Unfortunately alot of trades don't get paid very well, so I need to choose wisely.

Just about my entire family is dead against this. I've got several aunts that are teachers, and a few engineers in the family. I have my grandmother who threatens me with hauntings when she dies if I don't go to college. My dad has no problem with me doing this kind of work, as long as I get a 4 year degree first, which is not at all logical. If I'm doing trade-work, I'm gonna need training in that trade, not a college degree. So basically I'm deciding between doing something I'm interested in and being guilted by everybody, or going along with everyone's BS. I might enjoy engineering, but being blackmailed and threatened into college since I was 5 years old has had the exact opposite effect. Going to college because I'm forced to is setting me up to be unhappy.

Am I absolutely insane for considering an alternative to college, and thinking that a college degree has become extremely overrated?

I'm also interested in hearing from some engineers, maybe you can help me out. Maybe suggest a field in engineering based on the trades I'm interested in? I'm a hands-on type of person, and hate the idea of spending all day at work at my desk.

You are right, a degree isn't for everyone. It is a stepping stone to get to where you want to go. I love the sciences, so it is a bit of a no brainer that I needed to go through it all.

And you are right, you do get people who party through it all. But they are usually shown up at the end. I don't know about in the US. But over here degrees are graded (1st, 2:i, 2:ii, 3rd. You could compare that to A, B, C, D I guess). Also, employers will (if it is a job related to your degree) check your course transcripts, which shows the marks for each part of the course.

While you may think that people with degree's are more likely to get jobs, it isn't really the case. If it is a job that requires a degree, then yeah, without a doubt. But outside of the degree-requiring market, they don't weigh in quite as heavily. Employers are all about transferable skills etc these days it seems.

Also, and particularly with higher level degree's. I'd say they are more a mark of persistance than intelligence.

If you want to get into the trades, then go for it. It won't be as easy to work up the ladder, and you do risk the chance of doing the same thing for most of your life, but if it is what you want to do, then do it!

I went the way of academia, my brother went the way of trades. He is currently an aprentice mechanic working at a place that specialises with classic cars. He get's to spent his days stripping out the engines, replacing parts and refubing classic Aston Martins, Jaguars, Bentleys etc etc :)

Something else to consider, is that so many people get degrees these days that they are becoming common. The job market for degree based employment is saturated. When I finished my first degree I wanted to get a few years experience in employment before going further, but the job market was pretty much dead. So I took another year, did my masters. The market is still pretty dead, tho the masters did open some doors. Now I'm doing a PhD, and the upside is that I now have funding for the next 3 years or so (left). Only a handful of the people I graduated with have jobs which required them to have the degree, and only a few have jobs which are relevant to the degree. Most of them are working in shops etc, which blows :hmm: . (I don't know if things are as bad as that in the US, but it seems to be quite common at the mo in the UK).

The down and out. You should try and take on something that will make you happy. As long as there is enough money coming in, and employment shouldn't be too much of a hassle. Follow your heart.
 
Our engineers don't just sit at a desk all day. We spend a lot of time in the plant, solving problems, making things work, trying out new ideas, showing people how to do things, talking to suppliers and customers, and so forth.

In reality, a lot of my work is not too far removed from what I enjoyed doing as a kid, except that I now get to play with cooler toys, and get paid for doing it.

+1

I'm an electrical engineer, and I haven't been in the office since late November. It's not required of me, and I work much better on site.
 
It's not necessary, but it definitely increases your options.

In my experience, a potential employer doesn't so much care about what your degree is in. The fact that you can demonstrate completing a multi-tasking, long term project is what it's all about.