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Is a College Degree Absolutely Necessary

#101
arcaidy said:
If that is what he chooses. I have yet to be brainwashed in accepting college is the only route to a successful life. I know more college graduates working outside their area of study than in it.

Would they being doing their current line of work without the degree? I don't believe anyone can answer that question...
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Can you document that assumption? Studies? I work in my area of study...as does my wife......and all my friends and family.
 
#102
arcaidy said:
If that is what he chooses. I have yet to be brainwashed in accepting college is the only route to a successful life. I know more college graduates working outside their area of study than in it.

Would they being doing their current line of work without the degree? I don't believe anyone can answer that question...
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I'm interested. What sort of work do you do?
 
#103
arcaidy said:
... I know more college graduates working outside their area of study than in it.

Would they being doing their current line of work without the degree? I don't believe anyone can answer that question...
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I work in my area of study as does my wife. Neither of us would hold the jobs we have without our degrees.

warnergt said:
ep_chart_001.jpg
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Everyone has an anecdotal example. I'd be inclined to pay attention to these kinds of overall statistics.
 
#105
arcaidy said:
I know more college graduates working outside their area of study than in it.
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That's because an aspect of education is learning how to learn. At the advanced level, you are really teaching yourself under the guidance of a professor.

It's like learning an instrument. Once you learn one, it's easier to learn another.

Also, new fields emerge all the time. Had I told my high school counselor that I wanted to study "embedded systems," he would have given me a blank stare. There was no such thing at the time. The first people who rushed into that field when it opened up were people with "generalist" educations, including myself. Many of us learned it as hobbyists. Now it's an established academic discipline. Here are some of my friends who jumped into computer programming when that field opened up:

* Masters degree in classical music performance
* Bachelors degree in philosophy
* Ordained Pentecostal minister
* Various scientists, including chemists and physicists
 
#106
lycanbreed7 said:
If college gets you where you want to be go for it. But I don't believe it's the only way to be successful. Some of the wealthiest people Known today have only a high school education. Like some other people have said, find what you love to do and be the best you can at it. besides the best things you can get from life money can not buy, the rest is just expensive fluff.
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Go to the Forbes list of wealthiest people. Tell me which ones don't have college degrees. Gates? Jobs?
 
#107
fdeck said:
That's because an aspect of education is learning how to learn. Here are some of my friends who jumped into computer programming when that field opened up:

* Masters degree in classical music performance
* Bachelors degree in philosophy
* Ordained Pentecostal minister
* Various scientists, including chemists and physicists
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You don't need 4 years of college to "learn to learn". Can you honestly say those programmers wouldn't be in their current fields had they not finished college?
 
#110
guy n. cognito said:
Go to the Forbes list of wealthiest people. Tell me which ones don't have college degrees. Gates? Jobs?
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Never said all or even most. But some of them, namely a lot of entertainers only Have high school. A lot of musicians who are successful don't even have formal training. Like it or not there is more than one way to the top. Success is not only a matter of what you can cram into your brain and possibly try to put to use. It's also about drive and desire, and no just because you go to college doesn't mean you have either. I'm not saying college is a bad thing, I'm just saying it's not the only way.
 
#111
arcaidy said:
You don't need 4 years of college to "learn to learn". Can you honestly say those programmers wouldn't be in their current fields had they not finished college?
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I was addressing the fact that people change fields, not that the work requires a college degree. I do think it's easier for someone with a college education to jump into new fields. But to be fair, I also know people without college degrees who jumped into programming before it was a widespread academic discipline.
 
#113
I don't think anyone is saying college is a bad thing. I certainly am not.
All I am saying is there could be other options that lead you down the same or better path with out investing 4 years of your life and a significant amount of money.
 
#114
lycanbreed7 said:
Never said all or even most. But some of them, namely a lot of entertainers only Have high school. A lot of musicians who are successful don't even have formal training. Like it or not there is more than one way to the top. Success is not only a matter of what you can cram into your brain and possibly try to put to use. It's also about drive and desire, and no just because you go to college doesn't mean you have either. I'm not saying college is a bad thing, I'm just saying it's not the only way.
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That`s pretty ignorant. And yes, while not all musicians are formerly trained, you`d be surprised how many of them have advanced degrees - just in case music didn`t work out.
 
#115
arcaidy said:
Hmm.... You should put that study experience you have to use and read. I have answered that question a couple time in this thread.
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Sorry, I had no interest in reading your previous posts.

Military, huh? Learned aircraft maintenance? How many years did you spend in the military learning your craft? What risks did you take to get that education?

You got an education, you just didn't get it in a traditional college. Significantly different than some high school drop out.
 
#116
lycanbreed7 said:
Never said all or even most. But some of them, namely a lot of entertainers only Have high school. A lot of musicians who are successful don't even have formal training. Like it or not there is more than one way to the top. Success is not only a matter of what you can cram into your brain and possibly try to put to use. It's also about drive and desire, and no just because you go to college doesn't mean you have either. I'm not saying college is a bad thing, I'm just saying it's not the only way.
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Entertainers and athletes.
 
#118
fdeck said:
Maybe, but if so, it's a particular kind of persistence: To take an ill-defined and open-ended problem and turn it into a new project, to bring together the knowledge and skills to finish it, and to defend the merit of your work in front of a skeptical audience of experts. Some of what you have to figure out, may be beyond the abilities of your professors to teach you. You may have to invent new techniques on your own.

The problem with this description, is that it resembles people who are entrepreneurs, rather than salarymen. Those of us who are in fact salarymen, often engage in entrepreneurial activity within our jobs. But there is no guarantee that a person with a PhD is going to learn the personal traits necessary to engage as an entrepreneur. Those traits have to come from somewhere else, though they are reinforced by the intense intellectual atmosphere of a graduate program at a good university.
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Sorry, I did leave that too open. And that does cover it a lot better than I did.


fdeck said:
It's vital to know that the education system produces a surplus of PhDs relative to published job openings that require the degree. But truth be told, everybody works below their degree level when they get their first job after school. Also, graduate education is not vocational training. It's education. The reason to pursue it is if you want to be an educated person. Making yourself employable is something that you have to do for yourself on top of pursuing your degree, and may depend on "people" skills that can't be taught.

I went to grad school because I wanted to learn more about the subjects that I studied in college. There was also a pride factor involved. The irony is that the people who attend grad school for non employment related reasons end up competing with you for jobs when we finish our degrees. In addition, many people worldwide consider an advanced degree from a US or European university to be a real ticket to success within their own countries, but then a percentage of them end up competing with us too.
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While I wouldn't agree that everybody starts out working below their degree level, I'm aware that is true for a lot of people. But it does open a lot more interviews. Having a higher than advertised for degree will make you stick out from the stack of people who all have the minimal degree requirements.

And of course it is true that most will go into education to follow a subject for more than just employment reasons. Heck, if you don't have a true passion for the work you do, you'll never finish a doctorate! (and I certainly wouldnt have gotten involved in the sciences if it was just for the employment/money :p )
 
#120
guy n. cognito said:
You got an education, you just didn't get it in a traditional college. Significantly different than some high school drop out.
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See! Now you're catching on! Instead of simply disagreeing with someone off the bat, you should understand their argument first.

I have tried, but may not have succeeded in saying there are other paths than college to a successful life.
 

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