I don't think anyone doubts you in that. Formal education and possible success are strongly dependant on the field in which you want to work. Which I believe everyone is in agreement with there.
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Is a College Degree Absolutely Necessary
- Thread starter greekorican
- Start date
I don't think anyone doubts you in that. Formal education and possible success are strongly dependant on the field in which you want to work. Which I believe everyone is in agreement with there.
Kind of the pot calling the kettle black isn't it. Whether you like it or not there are people who are successful and rich who never set foot in a college. Besides that, you ever hear of an honorary degree.
Not having surfed through the entire thread, I'll still toss in my .02
If you like doing stuff with your hands, go for a trade. So, if you like working on cars, go for it. BUT, if you want to do the same thing, at a much higher level, get your mech. eng. degree and then you can still work on cars, but at the design level.
I'm someone who never went to university (college) but I went to community college 3 times and might even be going back a fourth time. Part of going back all those times is because I couldn't get work in my field of study.
Ultimately, look at what you want to do in the future. Engineering is good to have because it's a fairly broad degree that has many, many options. Make your decision wisely and remember, if you go through with the degree, it'll be 4 years well spent. Make the decision for yourself and don't allow anyone to pressure you.
If you like doing stuff with your hands, go for a trade. So, if you like working on cars, go for it. BUT, if you want to do the same thing, at a much higher level, get your mech. eng. degree and then you can still work on cars, but at the design level.
I'm someone who never went to university (college) but I went to community college 3 times and might even be going back a fourth time. Part of going back all those times is because I couldn't get work in my field of study.
Ultimately, look at what you want to do in the future. Engineering is good to have because it's a fairly broad degree that has many, many options. Make your decision wisely and remember, if you go through with the degree, it'll be 4 years well spent. Make the decision for yourself and don't allow anyone to pressure you.
If you are not willing to commit to a four year university, why don't you go to community college for two years? If you are as bright as you say you are, it should really be fairly simple for you and you will walk away with an Associate's Degree. Since you are paying for school by yourself you will save yourself a tremendous amount of money. You can go to school and have enough time to work part time. After the two years you can see where you stand in terms of furthering your educational career or jumping right into trade.
Maybe I should explain it to you better. You have an education. You're not a "high school droupout" making 6 figures. The cost of your education.......you had to go to war.
You have to have an education to succeed, whether it comes in a traditional college, trade program, or in the military.
For every successful athlete, there are thousands that never saw a professional game. For every successful musician, there are thousands that will never play anything better than a surburban bar.
You really want to hang your hat on that.
Nothing wrong with going into the military IF YOU HAVE THE PERSONALITY for it. You know as well as I do what that currently means.
But - it is NOT one or the other. It's BOTH. If you go into the military, promise yourself that you will use the benefits to pay for your degree - and earn one. Regardless of the great skills you may (or may not) learn in the military, in many job positions having served doesn't mean squat. Service does not substitute for a degree. Get both if you go that route.
But - it is NOT one or the other. It's BOTH. If you go into the military, promise yourself that you will use the benefits to pay for your degree - and earn one. Regardless of the great skills you may (or may not) learn in the military, in many job positions having served doesn't mean squat. Service does not substitute for a degree. Get both if you go that route.
You're preaching to the choir man!
To be successful, I agree you’ll need an education. That education can come in many forms. College is the only one a lot of people look at these days for some odd reason. If my son doesn’t want to go to college, I am not going to force him. I will expect him to ready himself for life in some form or fashion. I don’t care if he chooses to join the military, become a journey man, attend a trade school or what ever the next step is as long as he attempts to better himself.
I simply believe there are better uses of time and money than college for some, if not the majority of people out there.
Having only skimmed the thread, I can say that I have yet to meet someone in real life who has said "I wish I hadn't gone to college."
My two cents.
I went to University right after high school, double major in History and Philosophy. I got really good marks, a few "best essay" awards ect. AKA, I am smart, but I work. I decided that I didn't like my job prospects when would get out. Don't get me wrong, I LOVED what I was studying, but I didn't want to study it for another 5 years after my BA so I would have a decent job. I dropped out after my first year, much to the disappointment of a few Profs; not to mention that it was quite an ego blow.
After that I took a job as a carpenter, and I almost have my ticket, hours are in, I didn't write the test. I LOVED working as a carpenter, and I learned a whole lot in my 3 years there. I worked my way up in the company fast, by the end I had my own work truck and crew. The thing was that I have a bad knee from soccer and it bothered me a lot, plus I wasn't getting paid very well for the responsibility that I had. I was getting put in charge of $1.5 million job sites, but I was barely scraping in $30,000 a year, with overtime.
I decided that it was time for a change. I weighed my options and decided to go back to collage and get an engineering technology degree in Environmental engineering. This was after talking to a lot of people in the industry and education. Currently, that is where I am. I just completed my first semester with a 3.7 gpa, near the top of my class, if not the top (super hard program). I am setting myself up for a $50k plus job right out of school. How? I work my butt off, and market myself as much as possible.
With all this said, I could have easily made $50k as a carpenter at the same point in life, but that is probably where I would have stayed and my body wasn't going to hold out until I am 50. Hard work will get you anywhere you want to go, you will just have to work harder, longer to get there without the formal training.
I should also note that my dad is VERY successful and highly regarded in his field, with hardly any education (high school drop out that worked his butt off), but it has taken him 27 years to get where he is. Yes, he has guys with PhDs that listen to his every word, but he has put in years of 70+ hour weeks, on top of working a second job to support a family. To top it all off, he has gotten a school to recognize his experience, gave him his BA and will likely be starting a Masters program in the fall. Even in his case, he sees the benefit of education; although he is doing it for the knowledge, which is what higher education should be IMO.
Work hard, have fun and you will enjoy life.
lowsound
I went to University right after high school, double major in History and Philosophy. I got really good marks, a few "best essay" awards ect. AKA, I am smart, but I work. I decided that I didn't like my job prospects when would get out. Don't get me wrong, I LOVED what I was studying, but I didn't want to study it for another 5 years after my BA so I would have a decent job. I dropped out after my first year, much to the disappointment of a few Profs; not to mention that it was quite an ego blow.
After that I took a job as a carpenter, and I almost have my ticket, hours are in, I didn't write the test. I LOVED working as a carpenter, and I learned a whole lot in my 3 years there. I worked my way up in the company fast, by the end I had my own work truck and crew. The thing was that I have a bad knee from soccer and it bothered me a lot, plus I wasn't getting paid very well for the responsibility that I had. I was getting put in charge of $1.5 million job sites, but I was barely scraping in $30,000 a year, with overtime.
I decided that it was time for a change. I weighed my options and decided to go back to collage and get an engineering technology degree in Environmental engineering. This was after talking to a lot of people in the industry and education. Currently, that is where I am. I just completed my first semester with a 3.7 gpa, near the top of my class, if not the top (super hard program). I am setting myself up for a $50k plus job right out of school. How? I work my butt off, and market myself as much as possible.
With all this said, I could have easily made $50k as a carpenter at the same point in life, but that is probably where I would have stayed and my body wasn't going to hold out until I am 50. Hard work will get you anywhere you want to go, you will just have to work harder, longer to get there without the formal training.
I should also note that my dad is VERY successful and highly regarded in his field, with hardly any education (high school drop out that worked his butt off), but it has taken him 27 years to get where he is. Yes, he has guys with PhDs that listen to his every word, but he has put in years of 70+ hour weeks, on top of working a second job to support a family. To top it all off, he has gotten a school to recognize his experience, gave him his BA and will likely be starting a Masters program in the fall. Even in his case, he sees the benefit of education; although he is doing it for the knowledge, which is what higher education should be IMO.
Work hard, have fun and you will enjoy life.
lowsound
As far as the "make more money by not going to college thing"- it's BS. What IS true is that it really DOES NOT pay off to get a PhD. The loans incurred in getting a Bachelor's/Masters aren't usually a big deal in the long run and the college degree generally paves the way into much higher earning positions, and thus the 4 years of lost income + potential loans is not a big deal. The years between 18-22 are generally not big earning years, and people with college degrees are more likely to progress in salary quicker anyway.
But you don't get PhD's for the money. There is a significant earning difference between a BS/BA and MS/MA in many fields (engineering particularly) that will pay off the extra year or two in about 10 or so years of earnings. But the 5 years of post-college earnings lost by getting a PhD are generally not something you can earn back in a few decades by the minute salary difference. So that is the education that does not pay off (monetarily), at least in most scientific fields.
Same could be said of doctors. The 10 years of school and residency take decades to pay off compared to a very good engineering job + the salary at 10 years experience/raises.
So don't get a PhD for the money.
Unless having a PhD makes you able to get a job you couldn't otherwise have...and there are a lot of those. But it's not the most common thing by any means.
EDIT: FIRST SENTENCE WAS SUPPOSED TO SAY THAT IT DOES NOT MONETARILY PAY OFF TO GET A PHD. Important typo.
But you don't get PhD's for the money. There is a significant earning difference between a BS/BA and MS/MA in many fields (engineering particularly) that will pay off the extra year or two in about 10 or so years of earnings. But the 5 years of post-college earnings lost by getting a PhD are generally not something you can earn back in a few decades by the minute salary difference. So that is the education that does not pay off (monetarily), at least in most scientific fields.
Same could be said of doctors. The 10 years of school and residency take decades to pay off compared to a very good engineering job + the salary at 10 years experience/raises.
So don't get a PhD for the money.
Unless having a PhD makes you able to get a job you couldn't otherwise have...and there are a lot of those. But it's not the most common thing by any means.
EDIT: FIRST SENTENCE WAS SUPPOSED TO SAY THAT IT DOES NOT MONETARILY PAY OFF TO GET A PHD. Important typo.
Well, here's my $0.02. I'm 38, married, I have one kid, and I'm a mechanic. I spent 2 years at a local CC for a degree in Auto repair. The work is not all that. Ask any mechanic working at a dealship. The pay sucks, (commission) and keeps getting worse. Long story, PM if you would like the complete LD. I decided about 8 months ago that I wanted someelse. I have numerous health issues from working construction, then working on cars for the last 20 years. So, now I am back at the same comm. college studying electrical engineering. Oh, did I mention That I'm working full time. I took 12 credits last semester, 13 this semester. Not very easy when you have a family too. My advice would be to go college, and do those other things right now. Get out there and experience it. I was young once, I thought construction was cool. I worked construction for a few years. A couple of hot summers and a few cold winters like we're having right now changed my mind about that. I started racing cars, had the car bug/ mechanic thing bite me and I found myself working at a dealership. I wish that I would have had a family that would have encouraged me to go to college. Life would have been alot easier now. Nobody can take education away from you. Anyway, I love my family, I love electrical work, I love school, I love bass. Now I just have to figure out how to make it all work together. Have fun, but don't wait on the education.
Let's just ignore the studies and statistics that prove otherwise.
My college professors were all PhDs. None made more that $100K. I make more than double that with an undergrad.
A PhD isn't all it's cracked up to be. You have to pick your field carefully.
at the age of 23, I'm starting college tomorrow. I realized after 5 years of jobs that I don't like that I have to take my future into my hands. I'm married, no kids, but I need to provide for my wife. Minimum wage with no insurance is hardly providing. I'm actually going into community college to get my associates in engineering, before transferring to a 4 year school.
I might transfer, but for my field it isn't really needed. All you need is a foot in the door and the Technical degree gets you that. Put it this way, the newer the field that you are going into, the less education matters and the more experience matters.
lowsound
