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Is a College Degree Absolutely Necessary
- Thread starter greekorican
- Start date
I read somewhere that when you take total life earnings into consideration, that many higher-educated people (especially phd's) have a really hard time keeping up with others, simply because they have a lot less years of effective working time (since they have to invest all those years studying). And when you take college costs into consideration...
In other words, sometimes lower education * more years of work pays more than higher education * less years of work.
This doesn't mean that I think college is not worth it (student myself), but I guess I want to say that someone could draw any conclusion with statistics
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I read somewhere that when you take total life earnings into consideration, that many higher-educated people (especially phd's) have a really hard time keeping up with others, simply because they have a lot less years of effective working time (since they have to invest all those years studying). And when you take college costs into consideration...
In other words, sometimes lower education * more years of work pays more than higher education * less years of work.
This doesn't mean that I think college is not worth it (student myself), but I guess I want to say that someone could draw any conclusion with statistics
True, but what`s more fun - school or work
I read somewhere that when you take total life earnings into consideration, that many higher-educated people (especially phd's) have a really hard time keeping up with others, simply because they have a lot less years of effective working time (since they have to invest all those years studying). And when you take college costs into consideration...
In other words, sometimes lower education * more years of work pays more than higher education * less years of work.
This doesn't mean that I think college is not worth it (student myself), but I guess I want to say that someone could draw any conclusion with statistics
While I'm not disputing that's true, the value of being an expert on something you love is the reason to get a PhD rather than any particular monetary awards. Obviously, that should be for any type of degree or career, but saying, "I'm going to go through the coursework, qualifying exams, and dissertation process of a Ph.D to make $20,000 more a year or to try and land a cushy, tenured-track position" are totally the wrong reasons to pursue a doctorate.
IMHO, of course...
I believe Jesse James of West Coast Choppers fame has an engineering degree. He works with his hands all the time.
I'm pretty sure that Billy Lane has both an Associate's and Bachelor's in engineering.
OK, you asked for input, so here goes. Keep in mind I'm 58 years old with two daughters (both college grads). Believe me in this, the days of making a good living with just a high school education are over! I don't care how smart you think you are or how little you care for college (ya, I know, it's boring), without that stupid piece of paper, your toast! Sure, for awhile you could do stuff you enjoy, but down the road, when you decide you want a nice house/car/vacation/better bass, and you find that, oops, you don't have the income, the enjoyment ceases really quick. As for the trades, understand this, your not going to be a spring chicken forever. Believe it or not, even your studly body will start to ach with age (doing "trades" work is a young mans job), and do you really want to keep working at 65-70 years old? Without a good retirement package, you will! Your grandmommy is giving you good advice that comes from experience (and probably some hard learned lessons). I know you think your smarter than all of us.................but your not!
I don't agree with this. I am 33, no degree and have a salary in the six figures. I know several people without degrees making nice to very nice livings.
Being in your twenties with 50-100K or more in students loans is not something I'd recommend to someone unless there is a damn near 100% chance of have a 50K + job shortly after graduating. Add up the debt, interest and on that debt and years lost from the work force and lifetime earnings might be a little closer than some let on.
You are the exception, not the rule. To suggest to others that this is the appropriate path is irresponsible, at best.
Are you going to let your kids skip college.
Not necessary, but may help if you're treading water in the hiring pool.
Sounds like you have a general idea of what you'd like to do trade-wise. Whether it is formal school or apprenticeship (just like taking lessons), it will help you. Or go to a trade school. Or get a business degree so you have an edge on selling your woodworking and you're the boss instead of busting your hump while someone else gets paid.
I agree with Jive about how things change when you get older and can't hump it (or simply don't want to) like when you were young. I've done a lot of environmental field work, even with a BS degree. But I also know that what I learned (plus the piece of paper) will get my butt outta the field - looks like pretty soon. That's why I went back and finished my master degree.
And for the record, I paid for my school with 3 yrs in the Army, loans and working during college. It wasn't easy, but worth it. And yes, employers do weigh that into the scenario. If you can pay your way through college and still complete it, then that means you're willing to do what you have to do to make it happen.
I went back to school after touring for 4 years. All that investment in time, touring and creating songs was crapped out when my buddy the guitarist flaked out.
So if you have passion for something, learn how to do it well. If that means college, knock it out. Learn, live, work and have fun doing it. Lots of good artists out there. But if you can sell your own stuff and have a knack for business or marketing, then you get to keep all that money. And you can sell someone else's stuff if yours ain't hot at the moment.
Sounds like you have a general idea of what you'd like to do trade-wise. Whether it is formal school or apprenticeship (just like taking lessons), it will help you. Or go to a trade school. Or get a business degree so you have an edge on selling your woodworking and you're the boss instead of busting your hump while someone else gets paid.
I agree with Jive about how things change when you get older and can't hump it (or simply don't want to) like when you were young. I've done a lot of environmental field work, even with a BS degree. But I also know that what I learned (plus the piece of paper) will get my butt outta the field - looks like pretty soon. That's why I went back and finished my master degree.
And for the record, I paid for my school with 3 yrs in the Army, loans and working during college. It wasn't easy, but worth it. And yes, employers do weigh that into the scenario. If you can pay your way through college and still complete it, then that means you're willing to do what you have to do to make it happen.
I went back to school after touring for 4 years. All that investment in time, touring and creating songs was crapped out when my buddy the guitarist flaked out.
So if you have passion for something, learn how to do it well. If that means college, knock it out. Learn, live, work and have fun doing it. Lots of good artists out there. But if you can sell your own stuff and have a knack for business or marketing, then you get to keep all that money. And you can sell someone else's stuff if yours ain't hot at the moment.
That was my motivation through high school, and then again after the Army and nobody was hiring in 1990.
Crap jobs can be some great motivators. Don't want to study for the exam? Can't spare a couple hours? It's shorter than the night shift at hardees.
If that is what he chooses. I have yet to be brainwashed in accepting college is the only route to a successful life. I know more college graduates working outside their area of study than in it.
Would they being doing their current line of work without the degree? I don't believe anyone can answer that question...
While of course this is true, I know that over here that the hard sciences and engineering based job markets are saturated. I don't know about the soft sciences, but they have been generally over subscribed course-wise, I'm guessing the market there is flooded too. The arts are always full of way more people than there are jobs.
Business/Finance/Accounting etc. , I'm not too sure about. But I'm guessing that this economic climate isn't favouring graduates in those fields either!
Using the numbers above, it's difficult for me to see how that could be the case with any regularity. Those eight years of study, lost earnings and college costs compared to a high-school graduate should be far more than made up for if one works from 30 to 65 and makes two and a half times as much. (And that doesn't take into account the far better medical and retirement-plan benefits.)I read somewhere that when you take total life earnings into consideration, that many higher-educated people (especially phd's) have a really hard time keeping up with others, simply because they have a lot less years of effective working time (since they have to invest all those years studying). And when you take college costs into consideration...
In other words, sometimes lower education * more years of work pays more than higher education * less years of work.
This doesn't mean that I think college is not worth it (student myself), but I guess I want to say that someone could draw any conclusion with statistics
Also, if one has the intelligence and discipline to get a doctorate (I stopped at a bachelor's) in the first place, chances are good they'll get some scholarship money along the way. I managed to do well on the SAT and went to school in the '80s, when costs weren't so exorbitant--the scholarship money I got, along with some help from the folks and a part-time job, enabled me to graduate without taking out any loans.
That is often because people spend so much time studying something that they get sick of it!
And as I'm sure has been mentioned already here, those bits of paper can often be seen as milestones, even if they aren't used to gauge someones understanding of a field, it can be used as a standard(ish) way of showing someones dedication to a lump of work. Also, life can lead interesting paths. Heck, if you told me at the start of my BSc that I would end up doing a doctorate in physics, I would have laughed 
I read somewhere that when you take total life earnings into consideration, that many higher-educated people (especially phd's) have a really hard time keeping up with others, simply because they have a lot less years of effective working time (since they have to invest all those years studying). And when you take college costs into consideration...
In other words, sometimes lower education * more years of work pays more than higher education * less years of work.
This doesn't mean that I think college is not worth it (student myself), but I guess I want to say that someone could draw any conclusion with statistics
Even if that was to be true. It could always be looked at as living it a bit harder up for a few years to make things a bit easier when you are older?
Maybe, but if so, it's a particular kind of persistence: To take an ill-defined and open-ended problem and turn it into a new project, to bring together the knowledge and skills to finish it, and to defend the merit of your work in front of a skeptical audience of experts. Some of what you have to figure out, may be beyond the abilities of your professors to teach you. You may have to invent new techniques on your own.
The problem with this description, is that it resembles people who are entrepreneurs, rather than salarymen. Those of us who are in fact salarymen, often engage in entrepreneurial activity within our jobs. But there is no guarantee that a person with a PhD is going to learn the personal traits necessary to engage as an entrepreneur. Those traits have to come from somewhere else, though they are reinforced by the intense intellectual atmosphere of a graduate program at a good university.
Something else to consider, is that so many people get degrees these days that they are becoming common. The job market for degree based employment is saturated. When I finished my first degree I wanted to get a few years experience in employment before going further, but the job market was pretty much dead. So I took another year, did my masters. The market is still pretty dead, tho the masters did open some doors. Now I'm doing a PhD, and the upside is that I now have funding for the next 3 years or so (left). Only a handful of the people I graduated with have jobs which required them to have the degree, and only a few have jobs which are relevant to the degree. Most of them are working in shops etc, which blows. (I don't know if things are as bad as that in the US, but it seems to be quite common at the mo in the UK).
It's vital to know that the education system produces a surplus of PhDs relative to published job openings that require the degree. But truth be told, everybody works below their degree level when they get their first job after school. Also, graduate education is not vocational training. It's education. The reason to pursue it is if you want to be an educated person. Making yourself employable is something that you have to do for yourself on top of pursuing your degree, and may depend on "people" skills that can't be taught.
I went to grad school because I wanted to learn more about the subjects that I studied in college. There was also a pride factor involved. The irony is that the people who attend grad school for non employment related reasons end up competing with you for jobs when we finish our degrees. In addition, many people worldwide consider an advanced degree from a US or European university to be a real ticket to success within their own countries, but then a percentage of them end up competing with us too.
If college gets you where you want to be go for it. But I don't believe it's the only way to be successful. Some of the wealthiest people Known today have only a high school education. Like some other people have said, find what you love to do and be the best you can at it. besides the best things you can get from life money can not buy, the rest is just expensive fluff.
