Is a College Degree Absolutely Necessary

[blendermassacre]

TRAIN...

just kidding... either electrical or mechanical.

 

[guitar ed]

Hmm.. College or no college? How about another alterntive, albeit with some drawbacks.

Join the military, learn a trade, and go back to college on the GI Bill, or what ever they call it today.

There are advantages to having a skill such as plumbing or as an electrician. Combine that with a college degree and you have, IMHO, some serious skills. Both the practical and the theoretical.

Just my $0.02 worth.

edg

 

[lycanbreed7]

For every successful athlete, there are thousands that never saw a professional game. For every successful musician, there are thousands that will never play anything better than a surburban bar.

You really want to hang your hat on that.

The same could be said the other way as well. You want to try and tell me every person that goes to college is living the high life, bull crap. No doubt you need a certain amount of knowledge to do anything these days, how you get it is up to you. But all the knowledge in the world isn't going to do you any good with out drive and ambition. I said it once I'll say it again, I'm not saying college is evil don't it ever, but going to college and getting a fancy piece of paper and some letters after your name doesn't secure you in success. It doesn't even promise you will do well. I have met people who went to college that are very well rounded. I've also met people who went to college that couldn't pour pee out of a boot with directions written on the heel. We all could argue this point into the sunset to no avail. Fact is you need knowledge and how you get it is up to you. What matters is how you apply it.

 

[fdeck]

I love electrical work, I love school, I love bass. Now I just have to figure out how to make it all work together.

Start a school to teach the electrical bass.

 

[IotaNet]

As far as the "make more money by not going to college thing"- it's BS. ...

Yes, it is BS --total shullbit. Here's a study that talks more about it:

Lifetime Earnings Soar with Education
Masters degree worth $2.5 million income over a lifetime

How much is higher education worth in cold hard money? A college master's degree is worth $1.3 million more in lifetime earnings than a high school diploma, according to a recent report from the Commerce Department's Census Bureau.

The report titled "The Big Payoff: Educational Attainment and Synthetic Estimates of Work-Life Earnings" reveals that over an adult's working life, high school graduates can expect, on average, to earn $1.2 million; those with a bachelor's degree, $2.1 million; and people with a master's degree, $2.5 million.

Read the entire report here: Link Removed

 

[blendermassacre]

Part of my reasoning in becoming an engineer is the prospect of a job in the music industry. Every instrument, pedal, amp, mic, cable, pick, and string ever made has been engineered by someone. The machines that mas produce them are engineered too. I realize that ill probably never play bass professionally, but being around music in my job is a long term goal and I'm going about it the only way that makes sense to me.

 

[Sherwood]

After everything, the simplest argument here seems to be the best:

If you have the ability to get a degree, get it. Even if it's an art history degree, and even if you never use it, and even if you hate higher education. a BS/BA/etc. is a standard metric of a person being able to achieve a task that takes 4 years and a certain level of commitment.

It is excellent that a number of people here have succeeded despite their degree. Their degree doesn't make them smarter, or more able to succeed at what they set their minds to. It does, however, open doors for them. Doors they might never have expected. It did for me.

No harm in getting a degree THEN going to a trade school, but I guarantee you if you don't get the degree first it's far less likely that you'll ever do it.

Life is hard enough. Why make it harder on yourself?

 

[TortillaChip520]

Since i'm not about so sift through 8 pages of very long posts, so i'll just put in my $.02.
If you want to be a mechanic or any sort of trade, you might as well go to trade school...
As far as engineering, you should definitely think about mechanical engineering.

To me, a college degree is both an investment and a sacrifice. You are spending alot of money and time now, that will hopefully pay off in the long term.


But ultimately, it's all up to you, my friend.

 

[Angus]

Let's just ignore the studies and statistics that prove otherwise.

My college professors were all PhDs. None made more that $100K. I make more than double that with an undergrad.

A PhD isn't all it's cracked up to be. You have to pick your field carefully.

Yeah, typo. It was supposed to say (as the rest of the post continued) that it does NOT pay off to get a PhD...unless, as I said, you want to be a professor or want a specialized job that only hires PhDs (as is sometimes seen in aeronautics, aerodynamic design, or occasionally EE).

 

[Angus]

The same could be said the other way as well. You want to try and tell me every person that goes to college is living the high life, bull crap. ...What matters is how you apply it.

This is all true- except that by not going to college, you are just adding one more obstacle on your way to success. Why make life harder for yourself?

Nothing guarantees success by any means. But some choices (if available) certainly make it a lot easier.

Besides, the connections you make in college are often as important as the education.

 

[coreyfyfe]

the connections you make in college are often as important as the education.

This. That's the reason I'm currently employed.

 

[Absentia]

People like to see that $100k piece of paper, even though the process teaches you nothing about the actual subject of study.
It sucks but go get it.

 

[Angus]

People like to see that $100k piece of paper, even though the process teaches you nothing about the actual subject of study.

That's not true at all- depending on if you stay in the same field as what you studied. Hence why no engineering company is going to hire people out of high school.

You won't learn everything, but at a good college you'll learn a lot of the basis and a good understanding of fundamentals, methods of application, and reasoning (and a lot of real-world, straight-to-job applications, too). It can't teach you everything obviously! But to say it teaches nothing is not true at all.

 

[Absentia]

That's not true at all- depending on if you stay in the same field as what you studied. Hence why no engineering company is going to hire people out of high school.

You won't learn everything, but at a good college you'll learn a lot of the basis and a good understanding of fundamentals, methods of application, and reasoning (and a lot of real-world, straight-to-job applications, too). It can't teach you everything obviously! But to say it teaches nothing is not true at all.

The only thing college does is spread a 2 hour long google cram session into 15 weeks of soul crushing remedial garbage.
At least my experience with 4 IT programs at 4 different public and private colleges, and interviewing applicants fresh out of the gate.

Do you need to do it? Yes unfortunately but something needs to be done to reform colleges, more research and actual study not regurgitated, outdated information and prefabricated opinions forced on students by lazy faculty.


Though I did learn a great deal about managing debt from college.

 

[coreyfyfe]

You won't learn everything, but at a good college you'll learn a lot of the basis and a good understanding of fundamentals, methods of application, and reasoning (and a lot of real-world, straight-to-job applications, too). It can't teach you everything obviously! But to say it teaches nothing is not true at all.

Again, I'm with Angus on this one. I went to a school which is known for its internship programs. I did three internships through the school, two of which I was allowed to stay on part time while in classes, and a fourth internship that I found on my own through former co-workers, which lead to my full time job now while I finish grad school. There is a ton of opportunity out there, but it is only the job of a college/university system to lay the ground work. What you gain from that knowledge, how you apply it, and where it takes you is up to you. Not to sound like a motivational speaker or anything...

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

As far as the "make more money by not going to college thing"- it's BS. What IS true is that it really DOES NOT pay off to get a PhD. The loans incurred in getting a Bachelor's/Masters aren't usually a big deal in the long run and the college degree generally paves the way into much higher earning positions, and thus the 4 years of lost income + potential loans is not a big deal. The years between 18-22 are generally not big earning years, and people with college degrees are more likely to progress in salary quicker anyway.

But you don't get PhD's for the money. There is a significant earning difference between a BS/BA and MS/MA in many fields (engineering particularly) that will pay off the extra year or two in about 10 or so years of earnings. But the 5 years of post-college earnings lost by getting a PhD are generally not something you can earn back in a few decades by the minute salary difference. So that is the education that does not pay off (monetarily), at least in most scientific fields.

Same could be said of doctors. The 10 years of school and residency take decades to pay off compared to a very good engineering job + the salary at 10 years experience/raises.

So don't get a PhD for the money.

Unless having a PhD makes you able to get a job you couldn't otherwise have...and there are a lot of those. But it's not the most common thing by any means.


EDIT: FIRST SENTENCE WAS SUPPOSED TO SAY THAT IT DOES NOT MONETARILY PAY OFF TO GET A PHD. Important typo.

I wouldn't say that is true across the board, not by a long shot. And certainly not in the UK (and much of the EU).

The only debt I have is from my undergrad (~£12,000). My masters and phd are funded, giving a stipend and paying tuition fees. The money I'm making while doing my PhD is in the region I would be earning with a job using my BSc (hons). (Granted tho, it looks less, but as it is a tax free stipend, it is similar to what I would have after tax).

Starting salaries in the sciences around my parts are in the region of:

BSc (hons) - £15,000 - £18,000
MSc - Around the £20,000 mark
PhD - £27,000+

I'd say the PhD is worth it over here. Heck, even as a personal achievement it is more than worth it. While the money isn't huge, there is certainly a big jump up when entering the doctorate job market (over here at least).

One thing to point out that differs between systems is that (I think) PhDs generally take a lot longer to do in the US. Here we have a maximum of 4 years to complete ours (after which the universities will try and cut your research/kick you out unless you have good reason).

 

[Kosko]

Its worth it if you go for something that you need to be shown in depth and is useful. Hence all the talk about engineering in the thread. If you want a job in this century, go for some form of engineering; or a trade skill for that matter. An English degree will get you an 8hr/job with no benefits.

 

[drteeth]

While I'm not disputing that's true, the value of being an expert on something you love is the reason to get a PhD rather than any particular monetary awards. Obviously, that should be for any type of degree or career, but saying, "I'm going to go through the coursework, qualifying exams, and dissertation process of a Ph.D to make $20,000 more a year or to try and land a cushy, tenured-track position" are totally the wrong reasons to pursue a doctorate.

IMHO, of course...

Agreed. I am going to pursue a phd (in applied economics) myself to be able to do what I love. But I have heard others (students) say they wanted to go for the phd to be able to "make more money". So sadly enough there are people that think this.

 

[MakiSupaStar]

I agree with your father's advice. Get a degree and work in the trades. You can start in the trades and work on your degree, or go vice versa.

Here's why I think it's great advice.

You're young, and it's much much easier as well as cheaper to attend college when you're young and don't have a wife and family. While you're young, you're still strong and healthy and a job in the trades won't be taxing to you. Now when you're 40-50 and still hacking away at your body is when that degree will come in handy. You could move up into management or something else in your field that doesn't require as much physical labor. Some guys enjoy the physical aspect of it, but some guys do it because they have no other choice and go to work with aching wrists, backs, etc.

I grew up in a blue collar neighborhood, and I have a great respect for tradesmen. They can make good money as well. What they told me is that now that they are getting old, and their body can't work like they used to, they wish they had a degree so they could do something else. But they have bills to pay and families to feed, so their choices were limited.

Have fun with your youth, but don't waste it, and don't think you'll always have it.

This.

 

[jrthebassguy]

I'll be completing my BS in the spring (double majoring in Marketing and Management).

I hope it gets me a pretty decent job, I'm tired of not making any money.