Is a College Degree Absolutely Necessary

[MatticusMania]

Well, talking in terms of absolutes... no, a degree is not necessary. Will it help, that depends on what you choose to do with yourself.

A friend of mine got her college degree, and AA I believe. She's now a manager at K-Mart making less than I do now (and I dont have a degree).

My girlfriend has no degree and makes $30 an hour teaching piano.

 

[Relic]

Motivation, self confidence, and an open mind will get you far regardless of whether you have a degree or not. A degree helps but it's not always necessary. Of course it depends on what sort of career or work you're looking for but if your goal is simply to make a good living, then what I said holds true. IMHO of course.

 

[Simo98]

Am I absolutely insane for considering an alternative to college, and thinking that a college degree has become extremely overrated?

You are absolutly correct, they are completely overrated, unfortunatly this means that when you go for a job with As in high school, and the guy next to you has a Ba. of Arts, he gets the job 9 times out of 10.

To work in almost any government department you need a uni degree, regardless of what field it is, what degree you have, and how much experience you have. A friend of mine applied for a job in recruitment with a local council, they told her 'sorry, you don't have a degree' despite having over 20 years experience as a small business owner employing up to 10 people at a time. The job went to a first year grad.

You can get by without one, or do a trade, but to be honest take the opportunity while you can. 20 years down the track when you really want a job in (X) field, have a family to support and rent to pay, it makes it a heap more difficult to study, even part time.

 

[Pilgrim]

No, a college degree is not absolutely required to find employment.

To prepare for the alternative, please practice the phrase: "Would you like fries with that?"

 

[Simo98]

I do hear about engineers who make 50-70k right out of school. I feel like the numbers must be exaggerated. I know a few guys that have had this kind of luck, but I'm wondering how common it is to make this much fresh out of school. What do you engineers have to say about this?

My dads friend works in a recruitment firm for large companies, engineers are among the highest paid first year graduates. Average is straight into 80-90k a year, you can make more like 120k if you go to work in the mines, but there is a much higher cost of living so it can be false economy.

 

[Bongolation]

Wait, didn't we already do this about six times in the past year? No?

Anyway, I'm retired now so I can give my final analysis:

My university degree was a total waste of time and money.

It never got me a job.

It never made me an extra penny in wages.

It frequently made me "overqualified" for jobs for which I applied.

If your goal in life is to be a cog in someone else's machine, college is definitely for you, but be prepared for your education to be unsuitable for the job market at any time for any reason or for absolutely no reason at all.

College is a waste of time for certain personalities with certain life goals. It's largely a waste for highly-intelligent, independent-minded people who recognize their own special abilities and are ambitious to make their own ways in the world. College will grind that spirit down and make you a "team player" on someone else's team. It will dish out conformity and discouragement, which is a good start for being a downtrodden model employee for forty years.

I realized this pretty early in my college career. I decided to finish and get my degree solely because I could do so without seriously inconveniencing myself and it would please my parents. I graduated with honors and a degree that would periodically impress dumb people who didn't matter for the next thirty years.

When my degree arrived in the mail one summer day, the heavens opened up and a chorus of angels sang...

"FEH! BIG DEAL!"

 

[Angus]

Except that you are retired, and thus what opportunities were available to you as a newly-graduated college graduate and what is available to current employable-age workers with and without college degrees are not even comparable.

It's not the same era, it isn't the same workplace, and it isn't the same field of workers. The average level of education is substantially higher now.

So I think your cynicism is misplaced. Not to mention the whole "it'll make you a cog in someone else's dream" thing- I find anyone who takes that view of a college doesn't understand how organizationally complex and fragmented they actually are; forming some kind of "singular worker factory" would take far more coordination than that population would ever care to muster. That's a good thing, from your perspective.

If someone has ambition, college won't drain it from them unless they are weak. What it will do, though, is give them the contacts and head start they need to speed up the realization of that dream. Just imo.

 

[greekorican]

If your goal in life is to be a cog in someone else's machine, college is definitely for you, but be prepared for your education to be unsuitable for the job market at any time for any reason or for absolutely no reason at all.

College is a waste of time for certain personalities with certain life goals. It's largely a waste for highly-intelligent, independent-minded people who recognize their own special abilities and are ambitious to make their own ways in the world. College will grind that spirit down and make you a "team player" on someone else's team. It will dish out conformity and discouragement, which is a good start for being a downtrodden model employee for forty years.

I realized this pretty early in my college career. I decided to finish and get my degree solely because I could do so without seriously inconveniencing myself and it would please my parents. I graduated with honors and a degree that would periodically impress dumb people who didn't matter for the next thirty years.

When my degree arrived in the mail one summer day, the heavens opened up and a chorus of angels sang...

"FEH! BIG DEAL!"

Pretty much how I feel about college. I certainly turned into a cynical old man at a very young age. With that being said, I'm enrolled at UIC this fall for Mechanical Engineering.

I think if I can make it through college, I could excel as an engineer, and hopefully it will interest me. I'm mostly dreading going through college, because frankly, I hate school. I'm a good student, but I feel like my time is being wasted. I can honestly say that I learn far more at work than I ever do in school. School taught me how to BS things and make myself sound smart. But, you've gotta play by the rules.

Highschool flew by pretty quickly, hopefully college will too...

You are absolutly correct, they are completely overrated, unfortunatly this means that when you go for a job with As in high school, and the guy next to you has a Ba. of Arts, he gets the job 9 times out of 10.

To work in almost any government department you need a uni degree, regardless of what field it is, what degree you have, and how much experience you have. A friend of mine applied for a job in recruitment with a local council, they told her 'sorry, you don't have a degree' despite having over 20 years experience as a small business owner employing up to 10 people at a time. The job went to a first year grad.

I have heard too many stories about people with years of experience losing jobs to first year grads. Experience should always trump education, because school will not teach you everything. I'd say if both applicants had 20 years experience, than it's fair to lose the job to a college graduate.

No, a college degree is not absolutely required to find employment.

To prepare for the alternative, please practice the phrase: "Would you like fries with that?"

My dad never went to college, he became a carpenter, as he had been working the in the trade before he graduated high school. A college degree wouldn't have made a difference in his case. My mom got a degree in Political Science, then got a job in a field in which a college degree does not make a difference. I know a bunch of people with political science degrees who make a living just fine without ever using their degrees.

Now my cousin went to USC (super expensive) for 5 years. Got her major and went back for a minor. Three years after graduation, she's working at Starbucks. That's pretty close to "Would you like fries with that?"

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you have a college degree. People who went to college tend to be very condescending towards people without a degree. There are more ways to make a living without a degree than flipping burgers.

 

[tycobb73]

Wait, didn't we already do this about six times in the past year? No?

Anyway, I'm retired now so I can give my final analysis:

My university degree was a total waste of time and money.

It never got me a job.

It never made me an extra penny in wages.

It frequently made me "overqualified" for jobs for which I applied.

If your goal in life is to be a cog in someone else's machine, college is definitely for you, but be prepared for your education to be unsuitable for the job market at any time for any reason or for absolutely no reason at all.

College is a waste of time for certain personalities with certain life goals. It's largely a waste for highly-intelligent, independent-minded people who recognize their own special abilities and are ambitious to make their own ways in the world. College will grind that spirit down and make you a "team player" on someone else's team. It will dish out conformity and discouragement, which is a good start for being a downtrodden model employee for forty years.

I realized this pretty early in my college career. I decided to finish and get my degree solely because I could do so without seriously inconveniencing myself and it would please my parents. I graduated with honors and a degree that would periodically impress dumb people who didn't matter for the next thirty years.

When my degree arrived in the mail one summer day, the heavens opened up and a chorus of angels sang...

"FEH! BIG DEAL!"

Yep. 30 years ago you went and worked on the line for $8/ hour. Today you can still work on the line for $8 / hour.

 

[tZer]

In my experience, (I have no degrees), I've found a degree to be completely unnecessary for me to be gainfully employed in very interesting and rewarding ways.

When I was 18, fresh out of high school and taking a shot a college the fact is I was simply not mature enough to take advantage of a college education. As one of those students who didn't find it hard to make the grade, I could have 'stuck it out' and gotten a degree - but it would have been, as many have described, by doing what it takes to make the grade and not necessarily learning.

In the years that followed my failed college career I worked in factories, retail outlets, purchasing departments, as a draftsman, graphic artist, web designer, web developer, applications developer - and that's where I am today - a professional web applications developer with a very broad palette of experience in a diverse array of fields.

Along the way I've popped into community college classes to bolster whatever area was currently relevant and each and every time I've aced the courses I was taking - but more importantly, I learned a great deal of very applicable stuff and was able to put it into use immediately.

Before the Internet was so ubiquitous, book stores and community colleges were my best friends. After, the Internet, book stores and community colleges continue to be my go-to places to boost my knowledge when my ability to home-school falls short.

If I could stop working full time and go to school today, I'd get HUGE value out of it. A degree? No question. An advanced degree? Probably. A head full of knowledge that I'd use to improve and enhance my life? No doubt.

My way is definitely not a way I'd recommend - but it's an example of how a degree isn't necessarily the only key to a successful career path. My whole-hearted recommendation is to take advantage of being able to go to college while you can. Learn as much as you can and LOVE learning. If you come away with a degree, bonus! But most importantly, come away with a love for learning and continue to do so beyond college. Continue to do so as long as your brain and body will permit.

 

[karrot-x]

Except that you are retired, and thus what opportunities were available to you as a newly-graduated college graduate and what is available to current employable-age workers with and without college degrees are not even comparable.

It's not the same era, it isn't the same workplace, and it isn't the same field of workers. The average level of education is substantially higher now.

So I think your cynicism is misplaced. Not to mention the whole "it'll make you a cog in someone else's dream" thing- I find anyone who takes that view of a college doesn't understand how organizationally complex and fragmented they actually are; forming some kind of "singular worker factory" would take far more coordination than that population would ever care to muster. That's a good thing, from your perspective.

If someone has ambition, college won't drain it from them unless they are weak. What it will do, though, is give them the contacts and head start they need to speed up the realization of that dream. Just imo.

-e^(i*pi)

 

[aborgman]

The higher (and more successfully) your educational career climbs, the more options you keep open.

This I would disagree with - something I've seen occasionally in engineering is people getting passed over for jobs for being too educated. PhDs sometimes have problems due to the narrow specialization of their degree and the general level of compensation companies expect to pay for them.

 

[aborgman]

Also, if one has the intelligence and discipline to get a doctorate (I stopped at a bachelor's) in the first place, chances are good they'll get some scholarship money along the way.

When I was in engineering school I didn't know a single graduate student that was completely paying their own way... I think all of them had at least 50% covered through GSI related work.

 

[aborgman]

Go to the Forbes list of wealthiest people. Tell me which ones don't have college degrees. Gates? Jobs?

In 2003:

66% of Forbes 400 had college degrees
33% of Forbes 400 did not have college degrees

Folks without in 2009:

#1 - Bill Gates
#3 - Larry Ellison
#4 - Christy Walton
#13 - Michael Dell
#17 - Paul Allen
#22 - Carl Icahn
#32 - Jack Taylor
#43 - Steve Jobs
#44(tie) - David Geffen, Frederik Meijer
#52(tie) - Andrew Beal, Samuel Newhouse. Blair Parry-Okeden
#56(tie) - Mickey Arison, Pauline Keinath, Marion Pectet
#61(tie) - Ralph Lauren, Dennis Washington
#65(tie) - John Dejoria, Donald Newhouse
#77 - Paul Millstein
#80 - David Murdock
#85 - Bruce Covner
#94 - Ronald Burkle
#97(tie) - Peter Kellog, Kirk Kerkorian, Richard Schulze, Steven Spielberg


Which is about 30 out of the top 100...

 

[aborgman]

I do hear about engineers who make 50-70k right out of school. I feel like the numbers must be exaggerated.

My two college roommates and I all got Computer Engineering degrees in 1998.

Highest starting salary - my friend who went to work for a startup, ~$60k.

Lowest - my friend who went to work for HP. ~$47k start.

...and that was 12 years ago. In my field, with reasonable grades, I'd say $50k-$60k as a starting salary was pretty normal 10 years ago.

 

[UncleFluffy]

If I could change one thing about my time in college it would have been to spend half as much time partying and run a small business on the side instead. Learning those lessons during my college years would have been a huge advantage. If the OP does go to college I suggest they consider doing the same.

 

[greekorican]

If I could change one thing about my time in college it would have been to spend half as much time partying and run a small business on the side instead. Learning those lessons during my college years would have been a huge advantage. If the OP does go to college I suggest they consider doing the same.

I'm paying my way through college, so I went the cheap route. UIC is $8500-ish a year if you commute. I plan on living at home for the beginning, because housing actually costs more than tuition. I don't want to live in a dorm anyway, I am a neat person. Rooming with a slob would really irritate me.

I don't want to be living here long though, so I'll definitely be working during college. Finding a job is tough right now. I went to about 10 different places a few days ago, and only 1 place took down my info. I don't expect to hear back from them. Not sure what kind of business to start, but that's looking like my only option right now.

Of course I'm going to have to do my share of partying as well...

 

[rakirksey]

... With that being said, I'm enrolled at UIC this fall for Mechanical Engineering. ...

+1 I went to UIUC for a degree in Electrical Engineering

As far as the whole college vs. no college debate it really comes down to a return on investment.

Engineering degrees in general have a pretty stable starting salary that in many ways will pay back what you invested in education.

Many liberal arts majors don't necessarily have the same guarantee.

Really when you think about it ... at 18 most folks don't know what the hell they want to do in life and don't have an idea of what opportunities are available. If you know what you want to do and know that college isn't going to help out, then seek out your dream and be done with it. For the majority of us out there that still haven't figured it out ... college is a good place to at least learn something and prepare for some sort of a career.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

So what do you guys think about pursuing a law degree?

 

[greekorican]

+1 I went to UIUC for a degree in Electrical Engineering

As far as the whole college vs. no college debate it really comes down to a return on investment.

Engineering degrees in general have a pretty stable starting salary that in many ways will pay back what you invested in education.

Many liberal arts majors don't necessarily have the same guarantee.

Really when you think about it ... at 18 most folks don't know what the hell they want to do in life and don't have an idea of what opportunities are available. If you know what you want to do and know that college isn't going to help out, then seek out your dream and be done with it. For the majority of us out there that still haven't figured it out ... college is a good place to at least learn something and prepare for some sort of a career.

I think I've figured more out than the average 18 year old. I'm interested in the trades, but I'm not sure which one. My concern is that I'm going to get into a trade and not make enough money, because it seems every trade I look at is dying. I do know that I don't want to sit at a desk all day, and I don't want to just design things in CAD (unless I get to assemble them too).

I looked into being a lineman, because I read that they make a ton of money (according to my mom, almost six figures) and it's supposed to be in demand because the current lineman are getting old. Other sources say that they make a very meager wage. Sounds like an exciting (it's kind of dangerous) way to make a living, and training is 3 months. I'm not sure where to find more information about this.

For now, it looks like college in the fall though. I don't think I can go wrong with an engineering degree.