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Double Bass Is anybody using just a mic?

Ben Rolston

Ben Rolston

Supporting Member
Aug 30, 2006
752
548
Brooklyn, NY
#1
Hey all,

Somethings gotta change in my amped set up, and I'm really thinking of going to a mic. I play the majority of my gigs unamped at the moment, and when I have to use the amp it just kills the vibe that I try to get when I'm playing.

I've been looking at the AMT (which I may have a chance to try after Thanksgiving) or a relatively cheaper dynamic mic set up, like Chris F.'s. But most of the discussion is geared towards blending.

I will have some sort of pickup on my bass, I'd just rather not have to use it.

Peace,
Ben
 
#3
There was one fellow I traded messages with for a little while named nodnarb, but he hasn't posted in a while. I think he told me he used just a Shure Beta 56. I think he studied at North Texas and got the idea from Lynn Seaton. Here's a thread where Lynn talks about his setup, and it includes a picture of his mic mount, although I believe he blends in a p/u signal too depending on the setting.

I assume you've also digested this mic thread too.

I owned (and still own) an AMT prior to reading that thread. But after reading it I purchased one of the dynamic mics mentioned in the thread and have been happy with it.

Blended with a pickup that is (sorry). I wish it weren't so. But some of my gigs (big band esp.) have gotten to the point that I'm contemplating a good set of ear plugs as my next purchase. No joke.
 
#6
Ben, what kind of gigs are you planning on doing this with if you don't mind me asking? Do you mean a mic into your amp, or into a PA?

My gigs are small-time as outlined in my profile. Noisy bars and restaurants. No PA 95% of the time. So when I say mic I mean a mic into my amp. If the gig is really genteel, then sure I can go mic only or unamped. But that's pretty rare for me.

But I think Jason and Marcus are coming from a different point of reference. They are probably talking more about much bigger time gigs than I do. Halls w/ seats. PAs. Monitors. Audiences who are there to listen, not drink and carry on.
 
#7
I've done it many times. I usually blend, but I start with just the mic and dial in the pick up as needed.

To increase the chances of making it work, try to get some distance between you and the speaker. Lately, I've been setting up on the side of my trio (drums middle, piano opposite) but I put my cabinet between the drums and piano. I can hear it fine, and the extra few feet away from the mic gives me more headroom before feedback rears its ugly head.

I dream of having no wires coming off my bass. Having anything on there that adds nothing (or takes away from) the acoustic sound is beginning to annoy me. I even took off the bow quiver and just lay the bow where I can reach it (on the amp, music stand, etc.).
 
#8
bolo said:
Ben, what kind of gigs are you planning on doing this with if you don't mind me asking? Do you mean a mic into your amp, or into a PA?

My gigs are small-time as outlined in my profile. Noisy bars and restaurants. No PA 95% of the time. So when I say mic I mean a mic into my amp. If the gig is really genteel, then sure I can go mic only or unamped. But that's pretty rare for me.

But I think Jason and Marcus are coming from a different point of reference. They are probably talking more about much bigger time gigs than I do. Halls w/ seats. PAs. Monitors. Audiences who are there to listen, not drink and carry on.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking of it at this point as mic into an amp. At the moment I'm not playing very many gigs where I've had a PA, and the ones that I have played at, there have been mics there already.

Not to be boastful, but I get a decent amount of sound out of the instrument, so I haven't really had to deal with amps very much.
 
#9
When I can get away with it I use a Danish Pro Audio 4021 straight into an Acoustic Image Coda R Series III with an Ampeg PB212H extension. :) Totally Heaven! Sometimes I can forget it is amplified. My bass is pretty loud all by itself and I can get away with no amp at some rehearsals, but the above combination holds up well to drums and mic'd sax and moderately loud electric guitar without blending a piezo in. If I need to get real loud I blend in a K&K bassmax. It still sounds much better than the K&K all by itself.

Best thing about the DPA is the pre-amp is built into the condenser and is extremely small, so you don't have this external box with another set of EQ adjustments. It runs off of phantom power and just has an XLR cable coming out the back of the condenser capsule housing. The worst thing about it is the price tag.
 
#10
Silversorcerer said:
When I can get away with it I use a Danish Pro Audio 4021 straight into an Acoustic Image Coda R Series III with an Ampeg PB212H extension. :) Totally Heaven! Sometimes I can forget it is amplified. My bass is pretty loud all by itself and I can get away with no amp at some rehearsals, but the above combination holds up well to drums and mic'd sax and moderately loud electric guitar without blending a piezo in. If I need to get real loud I blend in a K&K bassmax. It still sounds much better than the K&K all by itself.

Best thing about the DPA is the pre-amp is built into the condenser and is extremely small, so you don't have this external box with another set of EQ adjustments. It runs off of phantom power and just has an XLR cable coming out the back of the condenser capsule housing. The worst thing about it is the price tag.
Click to expand...

Ohhhhh, I was wondering when you were going to chime in. I read over your experience with that on Ken's forum. It sounds ideal, but there is no way I could possibly drop that amount of money on a mic (it's like 1500 right? or am I wrong, please say I'm wrong :D). I'm in college right now and that type of money just doesn't exist. What did you think of the other mics you were considering?
 
#11
Ben. Be prepared for the feedback battle.

I tried the mic only thing, then blending, then went back to pu only. If you have some flexibility about the band's stage setup a mic only set up is great but I do too many gigs where I am right on top of my amp. In those situations you feel like throwing the mic away (or at least I did). That's why lots of guys blend. You can customize based on what the room will allow.

I just ended up going back to pu only. I got annoyed with all the wires and stuff too. I did really analyze my technique though so I could get the most acoustic volume out of the bass. Bottom line, I got frustrated with the mic battle.

Just thought I'd throw in another experience for you to think about.

btw I do use a mic to the house only and use my amp as a stage monitor when a pa is available.
 
#15
I'm really interested in this as well. I generally don't bring an amp unless I'm in a big club, but when I do I hate the amp. I would love to find a way to use a mic when I need some extra volume.

I bet it is really great and ideal to use a mic when you are Bob Hurst playing at a big jazz club and you have a soundman who cares (and you get a soundcheck!). However, as I'm guessing is the case for most of us here, playing in the corner of a warehouse size, concrete room of a convention center or a tiny jazz club with no PA and no room to sit the bass down on stage is a different thing entirely.
 
#16
Well if its a gig with a PA i definitely just use my AMT. But only my tuesday gig provides that. The issue is that all of your gigs arent gonna have a PA, where a mic excels. Plugging into a bass amp isnt the best sloution. I have a PA powered speaker that works great but the damn thing is so heavy that i went back to bass amp..lol
 
#17
Ben Rolston said:
What kind of situation do you play in? Amp or no?
Click to expand...

Currently, I play mostly in small-group jazz settings in various size clubs and restaurants, but I've used this rig on big band gigs and salsa gigs too. There are some situations I have trouble with but I think it's often due to lack of power in the amp and not having a PA to plug into, and not the mic, and I don't have trouble often.

I use an AKG c4000b (large diaphragm condenser), switched to hyper-card, bass roll-off at 100hz to kill proximity effect, plugged into an AI contra. If there's a PA, I'll run a line out sometimes; it depends on the situation. If there's a PA but no engineer, the PA can be more trouble than it's worth. With my amp nearby, I have control. The trick to minimizing feedback is knowing how to position yourself/the mic, in relation to the amp and other musicians. Sometimes it's difficult, oh well. I like the sound. If I ever have money again I'll upgrade my amp, or add another cab to increase power, and add a graphic eq so if feedback is a problem I can eq it out.

Do a search, I'm sure I have a lot of old posts about using a mic.
 
#19
Hi Ben,

I agree with Fingers. I understand your thoughts on wanting to use a mic. I don't think there is any acoustic player who doesnt want the purest acoustic woody sound they can get. I will caution you going down this road though. People need to hear you - and really here you well. Not just the bounce but the note, the harmony and Melody and the Time your laying down. This is not to say mics will never do a great job. but when you are doing your own sound it can be tricky. Also, if your sound isn't clear and people cant hear exactly where you are in a song - you can loose work this way. I know when I play with a heavier hittin cat I would never want to compromise a dependable sound that I know I won't have any issues with. granted I dont have a car cuz I live in NYC so that also affects my choices but even when i tour - I wouldn't bother and I think with the right pick up , amp and cab choice you can get a very good sound that pleases you and your band. just my two cents. I would try to Gage pick up and try to not turn your amp up to loud. Make sure you are actually moving air with your bass and projecting, and that will help a lot.
 
#20
My experience is similar to Fingers. I have an AMT that I still use occasionally. I tried to use solely the mic but could never get the sound I was looking for. The problem I have with the AMT by itself is spot micing close to the bass surface or over the f hole, while it sounds different, it doesn't sound THAT much better than the pickup (at least in my case). And there are volume/feedback issues that can be profound. It's not like micing the bass from 2-3 feet in front of the bridge where all of the various resonating parts of the bass come together in glorious 3D sound.

I do like the air and the sound of the body when blending the mic with the pickup. I've had problems with different rooms though. In some rooms it sounds glorious and in others I can't much usable before feedback. You also have to be really careful with the bass's orientation to the amp. If you twist the bass (say while switching music) and the mic aligns with the amp in the right way you get screeching feedback which always thrills your bandmates and the audience. After a while it became so much of a hassle that I just left the mic at home. I occasionally drag it out but most of the time I'm going for the least amount of equipment I can get away with and still have a good sound (and be heard).

I've thought about experimenting with other microphones and with different microphone placements and I probably will someday. I've been going through some amplification, pickup and string changes and want to solidify those things before experimenting with mics.

mark
 

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