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Double Bass Is anybody using just a mic?

I almost always blend if I'm amplified, but then I like the blended sound. Remember that when you amplify with a mic, you're also amplifying the other instruments in the general vicinity (even with a hypercardioid mic) through your amp. Not so with the pickup (with the possible exception of super loud sounds which jar the top of yer bass). To me the blended sound is where the sound is on the bandstand. I'm still looking at different mics in the hopes of improving that aspect of the sound, but I still plan on blending even if I upgrade. FWIW, YMMV, YMWCB, etc....
 
Bass Dog (Way of The Samurai) is right on. The worst feeling is being on the bandstand and the leader asking you to turn up and you can't. Feedback sucks and there is no quicker way to piss off a leader then to have it happen more than once on a gig. I know bass players that have lost work because they are so adamant about the bass being an acoustic instrument that they won't or can't turn up when asked. I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't experiment. I've heard some good results too. Just keep in mind that when you are the sideman on a gig the leader is king.
 
A gig has to be pretty darn loud for a mic to not work, if you know what your doing with it. On the rare gig the mic doesn't work I throw a p/u in the wing of my bridge. The tone sucks, but at that volume I don't care anymore anyway.

Last weekend I worked in a club with a loud drummer and a guitar player that I think was pretty loud. The mic worked well, everyone heard me, everyone was happy.
 
A gig has to be pretty darn loud for a mic to not work, if you know what your doing with it. On the rare gig the mic doesn't work I throw a p/u in the wing of my bridge. The tone sucks, but at that volume I don't care anymore anyway.

Last weekend I worked in a club with a loud drummer and a guitar player that I think was pretty loud. The mic worked well, everyone heard me, everyone was happy.

I'd have to disagree. I mean as long as you run a mic to a PA you can handle any situation. The problem at loud levels begins to be you hearing yourself and your bandmates hearing you also. The minute you start turning up a monitor to hear yourself, or if the drummer needs to hear you more, that can cause feedback or the dropping out of certain frequencies which will make your bass sound worst than the pickup would. Just my opinion, because I have been in the loudest situations an upright bass player has ever been in...im sure of it.
 
Remember that when you amplify with a mic, you're also amplifying the other instruments in the general vicinity (even with a hypercardioid mic) through your amp.

True, there is bleed, sometimes; usually something from the drums, and it's always very minimal; only noticeable when I'm not playing.

I'd have to disagree. I mean as long as you run a mic to a PA you can handle any situation. The problem at loud levels begins to be you hearing yourself and your bandmates hearing you also. The minute you start turning up a monitor to hear yourself, or if the drummer needs to hear you more, that can cause feedback or the dropping out of certain frequencies which will make your bass sound worst than the pickup would. Just my opinion, because I have been in the loudest situations an upright bass player has ever been in...im sure of it.

I don't know what you're disagreeing with. If I switch over to the pick-up it's because I'm out of options with the mic. I haven't experimented with cutting feedback frequencies with my bass, but when I worked as an engineer many years ago, we were usually able to isolate a single frequency and cut it enough to eliminate the feedback problem w/o affecting the overall sound very noticeably. IMO, nothing could sound worse than a bridge mounted pick-up, and worse I can't play any arco with that thing on my bass.
 
True, there is bleed, sometimes; usually something from the drums, and it's always very minimal; only noticeable when I'm not playing.



I don't know what you're disagreeing with. If I switch over to the pick-up it's because I'm out of options with the mic. I haven't experimented with cutting feedback frequencies with my bass, but when I worked as an engineer many years ago, we were usually able to isolate a single frequency and cut it enough to eliminate the feedback problem w/o affecting the overall sound very noticeably. IMO, nothing could sound worse than a bridge mounted pick-up, and worse I can't play any arco with that thing on my bass.

Sorry, I misread wut you were saying. I'd have to say that 90 percent of my gigs are "pretty darn loud". LOL
 
Well, I have to say that I think I almost set myself up this way to weed out the bad music! If we can't get a balanced sound with our mics then I wonder about the musicians, the venue and even the audience. Pretty snobby sounding huh? But really. I play the acoustic bass and that's the instrument I want to play and hear. I had an underwood for years and I developed a sound with it but it never felt right, I barely touched the strings. It wasn't what I like to do and it was so foreign to me having the sound blast out of an amp. What's the point of spending your life trying to get a beautiful acoustic sound only to amp up and sound like a whale? I don't want to derail the thread but I personally find it so satisfying to still be playing the "acoustic bass" after all these years.
 
It totally depends on so many things. I used to be a mic only guy but came to realise that there are times when the sound isn't as important as us bassists would like to think it should be. Nowadays I am willing to use the pickup a lot more but it is in situations where I don't care as much about the sound. With typical trio stuff, I can often play without an amp but if there is a lot of ambient noise then I need a mic and I need to cut through and I usually don't have much time to setup and teardown and I want to carry the minimum amount of gear. For concert gigs where I have a really specific sound in mind (e.g. playing Duke Ellington orchestra transcriptions) with the gut strings and all so I will use as much mic as I can. These are situations with a big band (anything from 11 to 25 pieces) with a huge dynamic range so you could say that is loud but of course there is no ambient room noise and conditions are far more controlled.
 
Does anybody have experience with the AMT in a small setting (maybe background wallflower gigs)?
Ben, to try and answer one of your questions - yeah a lot of us use or have used the AMT in a pretty wide variety of settings. I used it for a few years on the kind of small local gigs outlined in my profile, blended w/ a p/u. Straightahead stuff, from trios to quintets. I don't know about "wallflower". Wallpaper maybe. All my gigs are small scale compared to many of the people who've posted thus far. :o

But you mentioned the fact that you're in school and on a budget. So I'll mention that big long thread I highlighted in post #3 one more time. The AMT is cool, but new it is over $600. In my case I actually think I get more of what I'm looking for on my "smallish" gigs w/ a different mic that didn't cost me as much.
 
It totally depends on so many things. I used to be a mic only guy but came to realise that there are times when the sound isn't as important as us bassists would like to think it should be. Nowadays I am willing to use the pickup a lot more but it is in situations where I don't care as much about the sound. With typical trio stuff, I can often play without an amp but if there is a lot of ambient noise then I need a mic and I need to cut through and I usually don't have much time to setup and teardown and I want to carry the minimum amount of gear. For concert gigs where I have a really specific sound in mind (e.g. playing Duke Ellington orchestra transcriptions) with the gut strings and all so I will use as much mic as I can. These are situations with a big band (anything from 11 to 25 pieces) with a huge dynamic range so you could say that is loud but of course there is no ambient room noise and conditions are far more controlled.
I don't use a mic because I think my fellow band members will like it. I use a mic because I like the sound, or more accurately, the way this manner of amplificiation preserves the acoustic feel of the instrument. Since I have gone mic-only, I have never encountered a situation in which the mic couldn't deliver. And I play all kinds of gigs, from the small ones, of which I posted a YouTube link, to modern bigband and pa supported gigs. Once you know your gear, and have some knowledge of acoustics and mic techniques, then it really is possible. All IMHO and YMMV etc.

Cheers,
Vincent
 
I mean as long as you run a mic to a PA you can handle any situation. The problem at loud levels begins to be you hearing yourself and your bandmates hearing you also. The minute you start turning up a monitor to hear yourself, or if the drummer needs to hear you more, that can cause feedback or the dropping out of certain frequencies which will make your bass sound worst than the pickup would. Just my opinion, because I have been in the loudest situations an upright bass player has ever been in...im sure of it.
Yeah, I guess this all makes sense to me. Everything you said is cool with me.

But in addition, I was also trying to make a distinction earlier between gigs w/ a PA and gigs w/out a PA, where you basically run the mic to your amp. I think the OP does not always have the benefit of a PA. Same here. And I think that will make a difference in terms of the kinds of results (and issues) he can expect.
 
Once you know your gear, and have some knowledge of acoustics and mic techniques, then it really is possible.
Vunz ... I've always been intrigued by your setup. And by some of the descriptions I've heard of life in Amsterdam too! In your video, I have no trouble hearing the bass. Nice sound too.

What would you say are the top 5 or 6 things you need to know to get the most volume out of your mic before it squeals and feeds back? Let's assume for the sake of this discussion that you are running the mic only through your amp and not a PA.

Anyone really, if you think this is worth pursuing ... please chime in.
 
A gig has to be pretty darn loud for a mic to not work, if you know what your doing with it.
David, same question as above ... What would you say are most important things to consider in getting the most volume before feedback w/ a mic going thru your amp and not a PA?

Your position (and the mic's position) relative to the speaker?

Relative to the other instruments to control bleed?

Notch filter? Is there a typical frequency range that most often triggers that awful high-pitched elec. squealing from a mic?

Let's assume that one can at least get a decent amount and quality of sound unamped, for the sake of discussion. My bass is not a cannon, but it doesn't exactly whimper w/ my technique either. It's just sort of ... average.

Thanks for any info or advice you or anyone else would care to provide.
 
David, same question as above ... What would you say are most important things to consider in getting the most volume before feedback w/ a mic going thru your amp and not a PA?

Your position (and the mic's position) relative to the speaker?

Relative to the other instruments to control bleed?

Notch filter? Is there a typical frequency range that most often triggers that awful high-pitched elec. squealing from a mic?

Let's assume that one can at least get a decent amount and quality of sound unamped, for the sake of discussion. My bass is not a cannon, but it doesn't exactly whimper w/ my technique either. It's just sort of ... average.

Thanks for any info or advice you or anyone else would care to provide.

First, you need to understand the pattern the mic throws. For example, an omnidirectional mic picks up sound from 360 degrees, I think hyper-cardiod is less then 90. Some mics, eg. Shure SM57 are even more directional.

With the knowledge of the mic's pattern, try to position yourself so the mic is facing away from other instruments and your amp as much as possible. I like placing my mic infront of the treble side F-hole. If there's a drummer, the ideal position would be on the drummer's left, my bass and I are angled facing slightly right, so the mic is turned away from the drums, and my amp, an AI Contra is behind me and to the right. By having the amp there, my body acts as a buffer between the mic and amp. Set-up like this, volume levels have to be really high to cause problems for me.

Remember, feedback is caused by a mic amplifying the sound from a speaker it's sending a signal to, hence re-amplifying itself. So the way to avoid feedback is by preventing the mic from picking up the sound from it's own speaker. A lot of times I can't set-up the way I described above so I adapt. Sometimes that means there's a little bleed, but as I mentioned before, it's only audible when I'm not playing. In extreme cases, I've placed my amp in front of me.

I don't know which frequency is usually the problem and I don't have experience with notch filters. When I used to do live sound around Philadelphia we had a full spectrum graphic eq. The only frequencies it was ever used to boost were around 550hz, which is approximately the freqency of the human voice, if the singer was weak. Otherwise it was only used to cut frequencies; maybe some bass frequencies if boominess was a problem; if there was a feedback problem we'd find the frequency and cut it back. It's very exact. That's the way I'd deal with problems now if I had the equipment.
 
First, you need to understand the pattern the mic throws. For example, an omnidirectional mic picks up sound from 360 degrees, I think hyper-cardiod is less then 90. Some mics, eg. Shure SM57 are even more directional.

The 57 has a pretty wide cardioid pattern, but there's more to it than that - the pattern changes with frequency. with a 57, higher frequencies (in general) have a narrower pickup pattern than low frequencies, but there are anamalous frequencies to which the mic is more sensitive. A careful sound person can get wonderful results from a 57 on acoustic bass (I know, since it worked great on a show I did yesterday afternoon), but they can also screw the pooch (which happened last night).

Note to self - be very afraid when your acoustic show is being mixed by a metal-head fresh out of SAE.'s training school...