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is band culture changing?
- Thread starter bluewine
- Start date
Febs said:
I think it is very true. People who don't go to bars just don't go. Smoking was just their excuse.
I am non smoker who would ban cigs across the board if I had the choice. But I also believe that if a bar owner wants to allow smoking then it should be his choice.
But back on topic, IME solo guys are doing well as opposed to big bands.
acubass said:
maybe it is easier to control the image of a single person as opposed to a whole band. we are all under the impression that "the man" controls mainstream media right!?
but really, I feel like a lot of my musician friends all want to be DJs now, what's up with that?
Unless you are in a functions band, most cover band gigs over here are in pubs and bars. In common with the rest of the world, it seems, the pub trade is very tough these days. Previous posters have highlighted some of the issues of smoking bans, drink driving laws, lack of disposable income in peoples pockets and here in the UK all of our supermarkets sell alcohol almost 24 x 7 and very cheaply so people do more drinking at home. All of which results in huge pressure on pubs to stay in business and many are failing to do so.
I don't know where people are getting to gig more than a couple of times a week because, over here, apart from a smattering of venues hardly any of them do anything serious except on Friday and Saturday night - there may be a couple of open mic nights but typically mid-week is really dead.
Even amongst the pubs who have live music there are as many business strategies as there are bars. The best live music venues have made live music a cornerstone of their business for years, they're well known rock pubs where people go because they know there will be a good band on. They are more difficult to get gigs at because the venue has a reputation for quality music to uphold but the audiences are usually knowledgeable and enthusiastic music lovers and the vibe is great.
Other venues are just clutching at live music as a straw that they hope will pull punters through the door, and their main hope is that the band will arrive with a loyal following that will swell their takings. They tend to be far less focused in terms of the type of music they promote and are far less fussy about the quality of bands they put on - they also seem to be the type of venue that accepts bands that will play for free or for very little money. There will be no longevity in their plans to stage live music, venues like this will pop up like mushrooms and disappear just as quickly.
My band is in the process of restablishing itself. It was a band that had been gigging the better venues on a regular basis but split for a variety of reasons then took 18 months to rebuild around the 2 guitarists (our lead singer, the drummer and me are all replacements). We've made our way back into around half of the best venues and have regular repeat bookings, the others are still proving harder to crack, though even at the best it would be difficult to play more than once a week simply because there are not so many quality venues.
There are bands like ours who play every Friday and Saturday night, but they seem happy to play anywhere. I've been to see a couple of them in bars where they were playing to just a few people and there was zero atmosphere. My band has also played at a couple of similar venues where there is no regular music loving clientelle and it is just passing trade, it's hard work with very little vibe from the audiences.
So we've decided on getting quality gigs rather than quantity. That's only going to result in a couple of gigs a month, but that's fine since it fits with everyone's other commitments.
I don't know where people are getting to gig more than a couple of times a week because, over here, apart from a smattering of venues hardly any of them do anything serious except on Friday and Saturday night - there may be a couple of open mic nights but typically mid-week is really dead.
Even amongst the pubs who have live music there are as many business strategies as there are bars. The best live music venues have made live music a cornerstone of their business for years, they're well known rock pubs where people go because they know there will be a good band on. They are more difficult to get gigs at because the venue has a reputation for quality music to uphold but the audiences are usually knowledgeable and enthusiastic music lovers and the vibe is great.
Other venues are just clutching at live music as a straw that they hope will pull punters through the door, and their main hope is that the band will arrive with a loyal following that will swell their takings. They tend to be far less focused in terms of the type of music they promote and are far less fussy about the quality of bands they put on - they also seem to be the type of venue that accepts bands that will play for free or for very little money. There will be no longevity in their plans to stage live music, venues like this will pop up like mushrooms and disappear just as quickly.
My band is in the process of restablishing itself. It was a band that had been gigging the better venues on a regular basis but split for a variety of reasons then took 18 months to rebuild around the 2 guitarists (our lead singer, the drummer and me are all replacements). We've made our way back into around half of the best venues and have regular repeat bookings, the others are still proving harder to crack, though even at the best it would be difficult to play more than once a week simply because there are not so many quality venues.
There are bands like ours who play every Friday and Saturday night, but they seem happy to play anywhere. I've been to see a couple of them in bars where they were playing to just a few people and there was zero atmosphere. My band has also played at a couple of similar venues where there is no regular music loving clientelle and it is just passing trade, it's hard work with very little vibe from the audiences.
So we've decided on getting quality gigs rather than quantity. That's only going to result in a couple of gigs a month, but that's fine since it fits with everyone's other commitments.
You have to partially blame the audience for this. We recently played a gig where the sound was terrible. Guitar way too loud, drums too loud, vocals way back in the mix, and bass almost non-existent. I don't want to get into details, but it was bad.
However the crowd loved us. Almost the entire audience (including the guys!) where up dancing for every song. We play this venue regularly (although the volume is a new thing) and always get a great response, but this was beyond great.
This was a party crowd, not a music crowd. They where there for a birthday party. But how do you get the guitar player to turn down when you get a response like this :scowl:
First we get attacked for playing gigs, and ruining the scene for everybody.
Then we get attacked for not playing gigs.
But to the OP: No, the culture isn't changing. There have been non-gigging bands since the dawn of civilization. At the same time there have been some sweeping changes in the music business thanks to advances in technology: Cheap printing of sheet music, the phonograph, the radio, electric instruments, and now the Internet.
Electric instruments lowered the bar for forming a band that could fill a club with dance music. I'm not saying that the bands competing for gigs are any less talented as a result, but certainly more numerous. Guitar Center sells enough gear to equip 500 new bands every day.
Then we get attacked for not playing gigs.
But to the OP: No, the culture isn't changing. There have been non-gigging bands since the dawn of civilization. At the same time there have been some sweeping changes in the music business thanks to advances in technology: Cheap printing of sheet music, the phonograph, the radio, electric instruments, and now the Internet.
Electric instruments lowered the bar for forming a band that could fill a club with dance music. I'm not saying that the bands competing for gigs are any less talented as a result, but certainly more numerous. Guitar Center sells enough gear to equip 500 new bands every day.
Depending on what your time frame is of reference. If you're comparing the present day to the 1940s or 50s, sure. But I assume this discussion means to compare present day more to the 80s or 90s, when electric instruments were plenty well established.
There is a little *****d-if-you-do/*****d-if-you-don't element, though, I agree (do TB rules require me to cover that? I did to be on the safe side...). I think most of us would say we support music education and think it's great for more kids to learn instruments and play. Then we complain that there are too many bands and the market is oversaturated.
Well, in my case I think it's more that I have changed than band culture. I spent many years being just a mercenary, that is, being a working musician no matter what the music or who called. It was all about the money and where to make the most. I did ok at it, playing two or three gigs a month, sometimes a month with nothing, but generally 30-40 gigs a year (over 80 in 2002 when I was with a band that had a couple of hits on beach radio). But, a couple of years ago I decided it was time to enjoy what I play more. Too much time wasted on stuff I don't like. Being 60 at the time had an effect, too. So, I began to play in bands that were more to my liking music-wise. Of course, the pay was cut in half, and even less usually. And these bands haven't lasted as long. had a really nice classic rock thing going for awhile, but one guitar player dropped the ball, and it died. I've picked up a variety thing since the last year, but it's not all I want. But, in the last month I got a call for a power trio doing classic rock, and it sounds like a treat. So, I'll be throwing it in with the variety band's schedule, with high hopes it will do well. The variety band doesn't do too much classic rock, but is better than some other bands from the past, songlist-wise, so it's still a fun gig. Of course, any band has to also play some stuff here and there that isn't my favorite tunes, but that's just par for the course. Can't have it all my way. But, the point is, nowadays, in my last years I am playing for satisfaction. If I'm not getting into it, it ain't worth the time. I also don't have any more time for situations where I can't hear myself. It's been good lately, and so much more fun. I get two or three gigs a month. Not bad, but not much dough, of course. Oh well, still fun, though.
Life is too short to not be enjoying playing.
Life is too short to not be enjoying playing.
Jools4001 said:
While your in the UK I don't think it's much different over here in the real world.
My band works hard on bookings so I know how tough it is negotiating fees with bar owners.
I think where we have it a little better here in the states is our summer festival & fair season. These are higher profile and better paying shows. Were getting $400- $450.00 to play an hour set at festivals. In bars were working 4 hours for the same bread.
Bar crowds for us go from packed ( keep in mind it doesn't take a lot of people to pack some of these toilets ) to respectable.
I always keep an eye on the action at those cash registers behind the bar to Gage how their doing.
Blue
The real world ??? dude ... come on. If we only talk about music, Europe is the place. They have more than 2000 years worth of music and the have all the great classical music composer.
Even if we don't specify music, USA isn't the "be all end all" of the world.
Way to perpetuate the egocentric Ugly American stereotype.
You're a real Ambassador Blue!
+1. Here in my part of Texas, the local law enforcement can be seen from time to time coming inside, giving sobriety tests and arresting people for public intoxication as they sit at the bar. It does not surprise me in the least to see the crowds having diminished over time. Sad, since we are connected to a huge military post which was, in the past, a never ending source of audience support.
As someone whose been playing professionally since 78, I humbly disagree.
It's as different as the LP is from the 8 track, and the cassette is from iTunes. If you can find a Virgin music store or a Turtles Records let me know. As previously stated, the mentality of the music consuming public has changed. It's been de-valued IMO. If you aren't on TV, you don't exist in a lot of cases I think. There are underground scenes and I don't know enough to voice an opinion.I don't usually rebroadcast emails I get from people I've worked with, but I shared it with a fellow TB'er so I'll share it as evidence IMO of change. The friend is a "named" guitarist from a heavy metal band. I wanted his advice in order to help a friend in that genre out. This is an example of what "I" keep hearing from older guys who have generally "made it.." in earlier decades obviously.
"There are no advances these days so it does make things pretty difficult. I think we have the internet to thank for that.
There really is no point in Mike contacting me as like you I am no longer on the front line of the music scene and I could offer no more than I already have."
Things are different. Maybe it's a variation on previous decades, but with the live scene changing it's harder for guys 20+ to be working in the biz....
and be a viable MARKETABLE entity.
I'm still thinking about these things, so please forgive me if I meander. I read what you guys post, and I really give it thought... jumbled these days,
but still...
