Is good enough, good enough?

[BassJuju]

I've been involved in a few bands over the past years and one really talented team of people. I am by no means professional and certainly have not achieved perfection. Still, I do take pride in the product I present when playing in any situation. I guess what I am saying is that good enough, is not good enough for me.

The reason I ask this is because I am currently in a country cover band with some very talented people. Awesome players, a great lead singer, and yet there doesn't seem to be any drive to get tighter as a group. No desire to rehearse. We are playing gigs and there are a number in the upcoming weeks. I listen to our recordings and hear far too many mistakes. Again, no ones perfect, mistakes happen live, but little things that should never be acceptable are met with, eh, we will figure it out.

Is this normal? Am I expecting too much?

 

[Gustopher]

It can be difficult when the others in a band don't care about the mistakes being made and shrug it off as if no one cares. I have this happen a lot, I mention songs that we play that I feel we should either work on a little harder or cut altogether and am usually met with "sounds great to me and the crowd liked it last time"... luckily since I am our lead singer on most tunes, I can push a little harder and make things happen, but it's still a hard sell most of the time. I really like the guys I'm playing with but they do test my nerves at times.

 

[lfmn16]

I've been involved in a few bands over the past years and one really talented team of people. I am by no means professional and certainly have not achieved perfection. Still, I do take pride in the product I present when playing in any situation. I guess what I am saying is that good enough, is not good enough for me.

The reason I ask this is because I am currently in a country cover band with some very talented people. Awesome players, a great lead singer, and yet there doesn't seem to be any drive to get tighter as a group. No desire to rehearse. We are playing gigs and there are a number in the upcoming weeks. I listen to our recordings and hear far too many mistakes. Again, no ones perfect, mistakes happen live, but little things that should never be acceptable are met with, eh, we will figure it out.

Is this normal? Am I expecting too much?

You're singing my song.

I have two goals when I perform live - first, and most important, the audience likes us and the club asks us back. Second, I want the band to sound good. Most bands only care about the former. Just have no professional pride. They hide behind "but we play with feeling" or "we have a lot of energy" or "the audience was into it" or a ton of other excuses for sloppy playing. Good bands play the right notes with feeling and energy and groove and the audience likes them. There just aren't very many of them; too many "musicians" settle for good enough.

 

[acid bass]

Is this normal? Am I expecting too much?

Yes, it's normal. Are you expecting too much? Yes and no.

I was in this exact situation with a previous band. They were comfortable sitting on their laurels and fumbling through a song relying on their natural talent. When I came in I started pushing for more precision. To an extent the band complied and we got a LOT better and correspondingly got booked to much better spots because of it. But it created a lot of tension in the group. The guys were never prepared for rehearsal and it got to a point where I'd try to push for better and they'd say "Nah, it's fine! Let's just have fun with it! It sucks all the joy out to stress over it!"

So no, you're not expecting too much by wanting guys to be more polished and professional in general. But yes, you ARE expecting too much from these particular musicians that you are playing with.

The lessons I took from my experience: Nobody in our situation was wrong or right, but we should've talked about our goals and expectations a lot more. My former band were happy to play dive bars for 10 people as long as they could just show up, play sloppy, and collect their check. It killed them inside to have to stress about getting parts right and making sure the song sounded good even though we were playing way more fun spots for double the money. I felt exactly opposite, I hated knowing that we could be playing better spots if we'd just tighten up a little (something that I was already doing on my own anyways). So you might benefit from finding a group of guys who are more like-minded. Because when things are good you can overlook the discord between you and your bandmates. But when they're bad they go real bad in a hurry.

 

[BassJuju]

Yes, it's normal. Are you expecting too much? Yes and no.

I was in this exact situation with a previous band. They were comfortable sitting on their laurels and fumbling through a song relying on their natural talent. When I came in I started pushing for more precision. To an extent the band complied and we got a LOT better and correspondingly got booked to much better spots because of it. But it created a lot of tension in the group. The guys were never prepared for rehearsal and it got to a point where I'd try to push for better and they'd say "Nah, it's fine! Let's just have fun with it! It sucks all the joy out to stress over it!"

So no, you're not expecting too much by wanting guys to be more polished and professional in general. But yes, you ARE expecting too much from these particular musicians that you are playing with.

The lessons I took from my experience: Nobody in our situation was wrong or right, but we should've talked about our goals and expectations a lot more. My former band were happy to play dive bars for 10 people as long as they could just show up, play sloppy, and collect their check. It killed them inside to have to stress about getting parts right and making sure the song sounded good even though we were playing way more fun spots for double the money. I felt exactly opposite, I hated knowing that we could be playing better spots if we'd just tighten up a little (something that I was already doing on my own anyways). So you might benefit from finding a group of guys who are more like-minded. Because when things are good you can overlook the discord between you and your bandmates. But when they're bad they go real bad in a hurry.

Yep... we are sort of there. We have a few gigs at small bars for a few hundred bucks and they seemed pleased with our efforts. This is good. In 5 weeks, we have a private party for a lot more and this concerns me. I think we should be much tighter.

Anyway, part of this post was more about should I keep looking more than how do I fix the current scenario. I'm not getting payed near enough to be someone's daddy, so that's out. We are all adults. So, yeah, I suppose I should keep looking for like minded folks. Thanks for the advice.

 

[JRA]

Am I expecting too much?

maybe.

communication with the others is key. bringing it up once in a while isn't the same thing as an actual dialog about the issue. exhausting all of the possibilities would be more important to me in a band/group with real potential. looking for other opportunities would be appropriate for me if the band was happy being a dead end.

good luck communicating --- with or without this band!

 

[51PRI]

I've been involved in a few bands over the past years and one really talented team of people. I am by no means professional and certainly have not achieved perfection. Still, I do take pride in the product I present when playing in any situation. I guess what I am saying is that good enough, is not good enough for me.

The reason I ask this is because I am currently in a country cover band with some very talented people. Awesome players, a great lead singer, and yet there doesn't seem to be any drive to get tighter as a group. No desire to rehearse. We are playing gigs and there are a number in the upcoming weeks. I listen to our recordings and hear far too many mistakes. Again, no ones perfect, mistakes happen live, but little things that should never be acceptable are met with, eh, we will figure it out.

Is this normal? Am I expecting too much?

No, you aren't expecting too much, in my opinion. You are playing in a band with folks who are content with too little. You will never go wrong trying to get it right, again, in my opinion.

These sound like cliches but I really mean it. Some folks are happy with good enough. You aren't. Stay that way.

 

[jthisdell]

This thread should have a poll so we could vote if we've ever been in The Band That Could be Really Good If We Only Tried. Everyone would vote Yes.

 

[Killing Floor]

Why don't you pick up some Texas bourbon. Can you get Garrison where you live? Don't settle.

Pour a round and have a playback party with your band and talk through it. Don't dog anybody. Even start with yourself if that breaks the ice. Say "I'd like to work on the whole performance, not just my bassin'."

Isn't that one of the reasons y'all record the set?
Don't make it a complaint session. Make it like film study in football. It is a team product after all.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Why don't you pick up some Texas bourbon. Can you get Garrison where you live? Don't settle.

Pour a round and have a playback party with your band and talk through it. Don't dog anybody. Even start with yourself if that breaks the ice. Say "I'd like to work on the whole performance, not just my bassin'."

Isn't that one of the reasons y'all record the set?
Don't make it a complaint session. Make it like film study in football. It is a team product after all.

Great advice here

 

[BassJuju]

Isn't that one of the reasons y'all record the set?

First, I've got no shortage of good bourbon in Kentucky.

That is why I record my sessions. I read here at some point "If you don't care enough to listen to yourself, no one else will either." They were surprisingly OK with the results. They acknowledged the mistakes, but said it'll get better in time. It's good enough for now.

Great advice in this thread from all... thanks guys!

 

[garp]

I believe it's Voltaire who gets credit/blame for the expression, "Perfect is the enemy of good." I understand that whole concept, but I've also voluntarily departed several bands that had somehow reached a consensus of "we're good enough" despite my vehement protests.

I'm hardly a perfectionist, but when folks aren't willing to make any effort to improve the band's finished product, that's usually a warning sign for me. I don't necessarily feel that more full-band rehearsals is a cure-all. I spend a fair amount of time learning my own parts – it's called "homework." But apparently that's too much trouble for some folks. At one point in a certain band, I suggested that the two singers get together on their own – or perhaps with the rhythm guitarist if they really needed some sort of basic accompaniment – to work out harmonies. I was more or less lectured that the band had been formed long before I had joined it, and was essentially told to mind my own business.

Oh, well. My advice: Have ethical standards, and stick to them.

 

[Charlzm]

If the audience notices mistakes, then it's a problem.

 

[Ggaa]

It's a reasonable expectation. The better you aim for the better you end up with, if that makes sense. If it's a lack of musicianly pride on their part, that's hard to change. Still seems to me (even after 40+ years) that if we're lucky enough to be in a band, on stage, with gigs, we should have the pride and respect for the other members to be our best player every time.

 

[trevcda]

I'd like to think my standards are higher than a drunk audience who may or may not even remembered the name of the band the next morning. I try my best to present a product that I could be proud of, if somebody I truly admired walked in on, rather walking through the door, listening and about facing themselves to the next bar, with a better band. That's a true story by the way. Unfortunately, I play with a lot of people for whom "good enough" and "the audience liked it" are how low their bar is and not much is going to change it. A buck is a buck, but be careful you don't type cast into that roll, by association. Because you never know who might be listening.

 

[Killing Floor]

Nobody is perfect except Kate Bush. So unless you are Kate you just need to work on some things.
And if you are Kate Bush please DM me.

 

[john_g]

I could have wrote the OP myself because Im in a similar situation. My band of almost 3 years now has had a few members come and go, and Im just at the point where Im so frustrated with the level of commitment from the others. I play every day, so does the guitarist, but the others have all just been fine with "good enough". I listen to recordings at gigs and there are tons of repeat mistakes and lack of consistency. I make sure I am ready for every gig and practice. We are trying to add a new singer and possibly a drummer, and even the people we try out are fine with "I just listened and got the gist of the song so Ill just wing it". I ranted to the guitarist that we are constantly settling just to keep it moving and Im getting tired of it.

 

[gln1955]

Am I expecting too much?

You may be expecting too much from this group of people. Some people have the drive to be the best they can and some don't. If they are getting gigs, getting paid and getting asked back, they may be perfectly happy with that and you won't change them.

At some point the frustration will lead to you moving on to a band with higher standards. They will keep doing what they do and everyone will be happier.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

Glad to see you've worked this out! A parting thought: A lot depends on the song. When we play something heavily arranged (Heart's "Magic Man" comes to mind) we play absolutely clean because that's what's called for. But we also have what we call "feel" songs. "Gimme Shelter" is an example. We all follow the changes, but if the crowd is diggin' it, the guitars will solo longer, and we'll repeat a verse or two. We used have hand signals for this; now, a nod and maybe raised eyebrows will do it. Besides, if you listen hard to the original studio recording, you'll find all kinds of messy stuff going on anyway.

 

[Killing Floor]

Yeah, just messing with you about bourbon.

Just gently walk it to the group that You want to improve and can We spend a few minutes talking about how that might look. Don't make it about someone else even though I can read the tone.
Just say "that's why they call it work" or some "no I in team" stuff. FYI there is ME in TEAM. And Met Mat at Mt Tam, ate meat. But I digress, this is about communicating the outcome you want which is overall improvement, tightness. It's the drummer, isn't it?