Is good enough, good enough?

[lfmn16]

If the audience notices mistakes, then it's a problem.

If the audience notices it, it's probably a train wreck.

I actually played in a band about 8 years ago where everyone was on the same page. We rehearsed ad nauseum, but when we hit the stage we were so prepared that all we had to think about was making music. You NEVER wondered if someone was going to play a wrong chord, or miss a change, intro or ending. You could just about count the mistakes the whole band made in a whole night on one hand.

 

[smogg]

I've been involved in a few bands over the past years and one really talented team of people. I am by no means professional and certainly have not achieved perfection. Still, I do take pride in the product I present when playing in any situation. I guess what I am saying is that good enough, is not good enough for me.

The reason I ask this is because I am currently in a country cover band with some very talented people. Awesome players, a great lead singer, and yet there doesn't seem to be any drive to get tighter as a group. No desire to rehearse. We are playing gigs and there are a number in the upcoming weeks. I listen to our recordings and hear far too many mistakes. Again, no ones perfect, mistakes happen live, but little things that should never be acceptable are met with, eh, we will figure it out.

Is this normal? Am I expecting too much?

I loathe working with players who comfortably settle for mediocrity. Especially when they are skilled players who refuse to fall back and listen to the original recordings. And sure enough the same mistakes in the same place week in and week out. When train wrecks start happening on paid shows I have no problem turning in my immediate resignation at the end of the night. Being embarrassed on stage is not fun. For me life is too short to tolerate it. Just my personal opinion.

 

[Wesley R]

I contend that sometimes under some circumstances good enough can be good enough.
I would expect any band I was in to get better over time (the total band package). If we do not get better as a band , I would bail.

 

[mstillman]

I listen to our recordings and hear far too many mistakes.

Are you the only one who listens to those recordings?
Same question, but with "listens CLOSELY" wording.

It may be time for a group listen to either an entire set or just the problem areas.

They may not be able to hear what you hear. Or, they may not want to hear it!

Sounds like you may have the best ears in the group. That can often be a mixed blessing.

 

[HardNHeavy]

If the audience notices it, it's probably a train wreck.

I actually played in a band about 8 years ago where everyone was on the same page. We rehearsed ad nauseum, but when we hit the stage we were so prepared that all we had to think about was making music. You NEVER wondered if someone was going to play a wrong chord, or miss a change, intro or ending. You could just about count the mistakes the whole band made in a whole night on one hand.

i miss those days....lol yet some ppl dont like to rehearse, i happen to love it, when everyones on the same page and then playing a tight set live. When you can dedicate time to working things out, recording rehearsals etc. nobody wants to get to the point where the audience notices..yikes!..

 

[Charlzm]

If the audience notices it, it's probably a train wreck.

I actually played in a band about 8 years ago where everyone was on the same page. We rehearsed ad nauseum, but when we hit the stage we were so prepared that all we had to think about was making music. You NEVER wondered if someone was going to play a wrong chord, or miss a change, intro or ending. You could just about count the mistakes the whole band made in a whole night on one hand.

I'm not excusing mediocrity; there are two of us in my band who are perfectionists and two who are not. Of the two who are perfectionists, I am the one willing to accept a little less than perfect.

We used to rehearse every week and we were tight and rarely made errors. The last couple of shows we played we had almost no rehearsal. We didn't have any straight up failures (wrong chords or botched transitions or the like) but some of the individual performances were not up to the standard we used to have. And this didn't seem to bug the two of us who aren't perfectionists very much.

At some point, you have to decide if you can hang with people musically and either take them as they are or move on.

 

[sawzalot]

By definition, "good enough" is good enough. The question is actually what is "good enough" for you and what to do when it's not.

 

[J-Bassomatic]

I've been involved in a few bands over the past years and one really talented team of people. I am by no means professional and certainly have not achieved perfection. Still, I do take pride in the product I present when playing in any situation. I guess what I am saying is that good enough, is not good enough for me.

The reason I ask this is because I am currently in a country cover band with some very talented people. Awesome players, a great lead singer, and yet there doesn't seem to be any drive to get tighter as a group. No desire to rehearse. We are playing gigs and there are a number in the upcoming weeks. I listen to our recordings and hear far too many mistakes. Again, no ones perfect, mistakes happen live, but little things that should never be acceptable are met with, eh, we will figure it out.

Is this normal? Am I expecting too much?

I'm not sure 'good enough' is ever good enough. Way back when I played, we worked our butts off, practiced all the time, together and separately. We did originals, and realized that national success was slim at best but it didn't get in the way of craft. It's your DUTY to be as good as you can I think. Otherwise, I guess, good enough is just that and not everyone wants more. Good luck, it sounds like you DO.
EDIT: Here's an interview with Peter Frampton with Rick Beato (a guy I've come to really appreciate), you see at the latter part of the interview (38:30) his thoughts on his progress, whether good enough really is.

 

[electracoyote]

Good, and good enough, are the enemy of great.

You and your band mates have to agree on and accept the same standard. For some musicians, good enough is the standard.

A recognized music director, who has a great ear, is well-rounded and is as talented or more so than the others, and who garners the respect of the others, can turn a good enough band into a great band if they are willing.

It's not about perfection. Perfection is a myth and a cop-out for those who aren't driven to greatness. It's about an ideal and living up to your true potential individually and as a band.

It's cover band pop music, not rocket science. You don't need to be a virtuoso to achieve greatness, you only need desire.

 

[dune]

It's the drummer, isn't it?

Literally laughed out loud. Thanks for that.

 

[Wasnex]

The problem is not with your expectations, it's with everyone else's goals. Plain and simple you're probably in the wrong band. Unfortunately it can be difficult to find a band where everyone shares the same goals and gets along.

Lot's of rehearsals is not necessarily the answer. Here's I how I have run the groups I led. We chose songs as a group but the vocalist had veto power. Before we rehearsed, we agreed which version of the song we were going to play and in which key. Someone in the group scratched out a lead sheet and provided media so everyone could start learning the song on their own time from the original recording.

During the first rehearsal we played the song in enough times, so it sounded halfway decent, and then made a scratch recording. It's not necessary for the scratch recording to be perfect. The idea here is so everyone has an actual recording of how the band plays the song to practice with. Everyone was expected to continue perfecting their parts, take notes on their lead sheets, and commit the songs to memory. Depending upon the difficulty of the material it might take 1-4 rehearsals before it was really performance ready. Everyone was expected to work on the own between rehearsals as necessary to get the music where it needed to be.

We rehearsed quite a bit in that band, but we didn't necessarily rehearse all of our repertoire from top to bottom. We had about six hours of material. Often we would just dust of critical transitions. For example we often arranged songs into shows with musical transitions between each song. Instead of playing the complete show down in a rehearsal, we might just rehearse the transitions. Often we did this type of rehearsal during sound check.

The scratch recordings were also good for practicing background vocal parts. After the instrumental part of the song started coming together, we would have a separate rehearsal to work out background vocal parts. During these rehearsals we decided who would cover which part and work on singing without the instruments. Then people would go home and use the scratch recording to learn to sing and play at the same time.

Another thing we did in this band is record all of our performances. After we loaded the truck and got back on the road traveling to the next gig, we would pop a cassette into the player and do some critical listening. We all wanted to sound as tight as possible.

Another plus for having lead sheets and reference recordings, is it makes it easier to bring in a sub if someone gets sick or has a conflict that prevents them from doing a gig. Hand the sub a reference library on disc that includes PDFs of the lead sheets and recordings of the band playing each song, and you may not even need a rehearsal to play relatively tight.

 

[Joe Nerve]

Sounds like you've outgrown your band. I believe in always playing in more than one band. I think might be time for you to start moving forward. No need to quit... just find people more in line with where you're at.

 

[DigitalMan]

no one's perfect

Fixed it for ya

 

[buldog5151bass]

Different people have different standards. For me, if I wouldn't pay money to hear a band, it's not good enough. That's my standard.

 

[Holdsg]

First order: be the best you can be, be honest with yourself first as to whether you are part of the problem
Second order: if you're doing #1, then have a frank and honest discussion about "band goals". If the majority just don't want to get much better because it's too much work (or other commitments get in the way, etc), then you have a decision to make whether to accept it or not.

another observation: I tend to play better with better musicians. When I know I am the weakest member of a band, it motivates me more to work at it more.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I've been involved in a few bands over the past years and one really talented team of people. I am by no means professional and certainly have not achieved perfection. Still, I do take pride in the product I present when playing in any situation. I guess what I am saying is that good enough, is not good enough for me.

The reason I ask this is because I am currently in a country cover band with some very talented people. Awesome players, a great lead singer, and yet there doesn't seem to be any drive to get tighter as a group. No desire to rehearse. We are playing gigs and there are a number in the upcoming weeks. I listen to our recordings and hear far too many mistakes. Again, no ones perfect, mistakes happen live, but little things that should never be acceptable are met with, eh, we will figure it out.

Is this normal? Am I expecting too much?

You're in a cover band yo, if people are still paying you, then you're good enough.

 

[Stumbo]

If the audience notices it, it's probably a train wreck.

I actually played in a band about 8 years ago where everyone was on the same page. We rehearsed ad nauseum, but when we hit the stage we were so prepared that all we had to think about was making music. You NEVER wondered if someone was going to play a wrong chord, or miss a change, intro or ending. You could just about count the mistakes the whole band made in a whole night on one hand.

Yeah, I was in a horn band for a couple of years. The horn players wrote their own charts and practiced on their own before we got together as a group. Never heard a mistake the whole time.

We all raised are game. Never had a practice. We had rehearsals. Rare that a mistake was ever made there or at gigs by anyone. Drummer was a like a clock.

Good times!

 

[BurtMacklinFBI]

It's tough to really answer your questions without having heard your band. It does sound like one way or the other this band may not be the right band for you, though. I'd think about it that way, rather than in terms of whether they're "good enough".

 

[SactoBass]

Am I expecting too much?

IMO, yes. But you are not in the wrong in wanting everyone in the band to play the music tightly and correctly. You are in the right. Please allow me to explain my "yes" answer to your question.

I say "yes" because you are expecting others to have the same high standard as you. You will spend the rest of your life in disappointment if you always expect other players to perform at the same level as you. It is an unfortunate fact that a large percentage of players are perfectly okay performing at a "less than stellar" level. Many players perform for the "hey everyone.....dig me" glamour of being up on stage, but they don't want to put in the time and effort to perform at a higher level of musicianship. That is why there are sooooooo many average (and below average) bands out there in the world, and only a few *really good* bands that stand out above the others. I'm in the same camp as you......I put in the time to learn the material so that I play it correctly. My mistake is, I end up expecting others to do the same. It's always a disappointment when I hook up with others who don't seem to have an interest in performing at a higher level. I usually end up distancing myself from those types of players and I try to put effort into seeking higher-level players who enjoy playing the material the way it's supposed to be played. It's a *wonderful* feeling when you finally hook up with other musicians who play at the higher level. It's a real breath of fresh air!

Oh, and btw, don't waste your time trying to change the players you are currently playing music with. They are who they are. So you either have to just accept their level of performing, or, disconnect yourself from them and find yourself some higher-level musicians to perform with.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I've been involved in a few bands over the past years and one really talented team of people. I am by no means professional and certainly have not achieved perfection. Still, I do take pride in the product I present when playing in any situation. I guess what I am saying is that good enough, is not good enough for me.

The reason I ask this is because I am currently in a country cover band with some very talented people. Awesome players, a great lead singer, and yet there doesn't seem to be any drive to get tighter as a group. No desire to rehearse. We are playing gigs and there are a number in the upcoming weeks. I listen to our recordings and hear far too many mistakes. Again, no ones perfect, mistakes happen live, but little things that should never be acceptable are met with, eh, we will figure it out.

Is this normal? Am I expecting too much?

Recordings are always worth a 1,000 words, but they need to be reviewed. Both band I work with record every practice and every performance. The first practice after a gig, CDs are passed out as homework assignments. (The BL in one band is a school band director)

It's amazing how much progress is made when player get a handle on good and bad they can be. There is no way you can remember every note that is played on a gig. With recordings it's 100% total recall, and the notes, good or bad, never change.