Is good enough, good enough?

[lfmn16]

It depends on your expectations. If you just want to gig and your market is not competitive for country acts, that perhaps being good enough is enough. If you want to grow musically, I would say no. One of the least talented , worst sounding bands in my area plays every weekend (pre-covid) The crowd is either clueless or doesn't care because they enjoy the song selection. They hack through songs, dumb down parts and will even cut out a part of a song that is musically too difficult for them.

We've got one of those around here. I posted about it on TB and got beat up for suggesting that a band should have standards. My drummer sat in with them regularly before Coronavirus.

 

[JoeWPgh]

There is a fine line to this. It is possible to over rehearse. The music can become very stiff and lifeless as people will play parts as opposed to music.

 

[HeavyJazz]

My approach to live playing is holding to a studio mentality. I try to play as if it's being recorded and scrutinized in the next room. It works for me and I still enjoy the experience.

 

[Whale guy]

One phrase my band always says when learning a new song is "that'll play", meaning good enough. This drives me nuts. The fun is getting the song to be awesome. Arrange the horn parts, add dissonance in the vocal harmonies, create quick, unexpected pauses in the music, start the song low and build the energy. Sooo much can be done.

I totally agree with the original post and every reply.

 

[TrueNorthMatt]

Just wanted to add: I don't understand how musicians can get on a stage knowing there will be sloppy parts (not a little mistake or two that can always happen), and not be totally stressed out about it. I always enjoy being on stage, except when I know I'm not ready for one of our songs. It happened to me on 3 occasions overs the past 15 years, and I perfectly remember those gigs because I couldn't have any fun.

So when I read folks here saying their band's members are stressed out by the thought of working to get tighter, I really don't get it. Well, I suppose I get the part where they may just be lazy persons...

I keep telling my kids: "When you do/try something, you always give it your best and you do it right. There will be mistakes. Work hard and get better." I guess that's not for everyone.

 

[BassJuju]

I appreciate all of the points of view. I will say that individually, we are all really talented. Probably more than I on a scale of 1 to 10. One has played in opening bands for some pretty big names. The other 3 have played in regional acts for the past 20 years.

Bad Mistakes... I've made a few... but, I digress. Bad mistakes are what is killing me hear. That, and we have another gig in two weeks and there is no talk of a rehearsal. This. The occasional wrong note/chord/lyric is life. I get that. I'm talking about wrong keys/wrong chords/adding chords/forgetting lyrics/lots of dead space/too fast/too slow/forgetting to repeat choruses/and probably other things that have slipped my mind. All in one night. Train wreck to my estimation. We all agree the recordings were painful. We are all capable of much better. A few songs went swimmingly and plain rocked.

I know, you don't know me. I wouldn't complain about small mistakes that humans will make. That's just life. I'd attach a song or two, but they are embarrassing to me. To be fair, 2 gigs ago was not a lot better and they immediately booked us for four more gigs. So, we have something, I suppose.

I'm sorry, don't mean to vent even though I clearly am. And, I hear we are going to get together for a beer and talk through this. No date yet, we will see.

Again, thanks for all the replies.

 

[acid bass]

In my experience, bands get tighter with experience much faster than with any amount of practice.
Stick with it and play as many gigs as you can and after a few months those mistakes will fade away.
Im going to go against the grain here and say, 'talking to your bandmates and telling them you think they should all be tighter' just makes you sound like you're trying to be holier than tho. If there are mistakes, fix yourself first; lead by example.

Let's call a spade a spade here. This is essentially treating a gig as rehearsal/practice. Of course playing a bunch of gigs makes mistakes fade. That's what PRACTICE is supposed to be. You play together as a group and figure out which parts guys are struggling with and clean them up before performing them for an audience. If you think that being asked to be a bit more polished before playing a show is holier than thou then you're 100% in the camp of people who say "this is good enough."

 

[Bass Viking]

Bad Mistakes... I've made a few... but, I digress. Bad mistakes are what is killing me hear. That, and we have another gig in two weeks and there is no talk of a rehearsal. This. The occasional wrong note/chord/lyric is life. I get that. I'm talking about wrong keys/wrong chords/adding chords/forgetting lyrics/lots of dead space/too fast/too slow/forgetting to repeat choruses/and probably other things that have slipped my mind.

What I hate is when the drummer starts the song with the wrong beat and you can't get their attention because they're in their own little world. I've had that happen a couple of times at gigs!

 

[Yellow Bang66]

You're singing my song.

I have two goals when I perform live - first, and most important, the audience likes us and the club asks us back. Second, I want the band to sound good. Most bands only care about the former. Just have no professional pride. They hide behind "but we play with feeling" or "we have a lot of energy" or "the audience was into it" or a ton of other excuses for sloppy playing. Good bands play the right notes with feeling and energy and groove and the audience likes them. There just aren't very many of them; too many "musicians" settle for good enough.

yes! Similar situation decent band, good players, except one Weak Link, Singer was above average, and seemed to be a task master, to the dismay of the Weak Link, the problem was Weak Link was lazy & the de facto BL, he leaned on & was good friends with the Strongest Link, lead guitarist, we played a couple of gigs, sounded okay, but we're "loose/sloopy on a couple of tunes, but WeakLink was very lazy, like he did not want any more to remember or keep track of, while playing. only problem was he would get startled if i looked at him "wrong" during the set! like "what happened, what did I miss?" and his insecurity would take over & he'd panic and F up the song over & over. I learned not to make any eye contact with him at a gig because of this. This all could've been avoided if we just took a little time in rehearsal to go over certain "rough spots" or tricky bits I could hear or forsee in a certain song. but he continually would wave any attempt off, like a lazy teenager told do their chores! the band was good, but missing that "something" to get get to the next level. the singer Quit out of frustration & after a spat with the LG, I left when I realized the weaklink was never gonna change I just wanted to play with other musicians that Cared or felt compelled to get better. Life's too short to live in compromise, I had to leave/Quit to live with myself.Good enough wasnt up to my standards. GL

 

[Bass Viking]

I spent a number of years in the late 90's and early 2000's playing bass in a YES tribute band. We played mostly their 70's era music such as the entire Close to the Edge album, plus stuff off of Fragile and The Yes Album. I'm the guy who put that project together from the ground up (I've been a die-hard YES fan since 1971). It took a whopping *two years* to find the right people for that project. Why did it take so long? Because of the excessive number of average (and below average) players roaming the Earth. There are many players out there who fancy themselves as "accomplished" players who in actuality are sub-par. Oh, they talk up a storm on the phone, but when the rubber hits the road and it's time for them to audition, they fall short. The good thing is, I set my expectation appropriately at the beginning of the audition process, and I told myself that it was going to take a long time to find the right people for that project. Patience and perseverance finally paid off after a two-year search and we ended up with a kick-arse five-piece band that played the material correctly. We had an absolute blast playing that material, and the crowd response was awesome (lots of Yes-heads in the audiences I presume!) I'd have to say that out of all the bands I've been in since the early 70's, the YES band was the absolute funnest! Plus, as a result of being in that band, I got to live out my lifelong dream of meeting YES in person in 2000 and talk with each of them separately (btw, Jon is shorter than I thought, and Chris was taller than I thought).

My point is, there is a plethora of mediocrity out there. It abounds. But there are diamonds in the rough to be found if you have the patience. Just don't expect it to happen quickly or easily.

Awesome! Wish I could have heard the group.

Mediocrity does abound. There's a reason why you see so few bands adding Yes songs to their set list, let alone Yes tribute bands.

 

[electracoyote]

I am a firm believer that "good enough" kills bands!

"I don't get paid enough to care". "We're only playing for a bunch of drunks". "I get paid the same if I play good enough or great". "Our last album sold just fine". "We're selling tickets". "The audience can't tell".

No matter your position in music when you accept good enough - you have peaked. We all have our point of good enough.

The trick is to find other musicians who care as much - or as little - as you care. Let's be honest here, we're not all headed for Madison Square Garden.

Great post, except that last bolded part.

My sense of pride and achievement have nothing to do with what stage I'm on. It applies to every stage I take and every audience I am charged with entertaining.

So, in my case, I am most fulfilled and content when I work with other musicians who feel the same in that respect.

 

[electracoyote]

I appreciate all of the points of view. I will say that individually, we are all really talented. Probably more than I on a scale of 1 to 10. One has played in opening bands for some pretty big names. The other 3 have played in regional acts for the past 20 years.

Bad Mistakes... I've made a few... but, I digress. Bad mistakes are what is killing me hear. That, and we have another gig in two weeks and there is no talk of a rehearsal. This. The occasional wrong note/chord/lyric is life. I get that. I'm talking about wrong keys/wrong chords/adding chords/forgetting lyrics/lots of dead space/too fast/too slow/forgetting to repeat choruses/and probably other things that have slipped my mind. All in one night. Train wreck to my estimation. We all agree the recordings were painful. We are all capable of much better. A few songs went swimmingly and plain rocked.

I know, you don't know me. I wouldn't complain about small mistakes that humans will make. That's just life. I'd attach a song or two, but they are embarrassing to me. To be fair, 2 gigs ago was not a lot better and they immediately booked us for four more gigs. So, we have something, I suppose.

I'm sorry, don't mean to vent even though I clearly am. And, I hear we are going to get together for a beer and talk through this. No date yet, we will see.

Again, thanks for all the replies.

Copy and paste this post, print it, and take it to the meeting. Read it to your mates in the spirit of respect and concern for the product.

The only way things will improve for you (and the band) is if someone not only points out the numerous flubs and miscues, but holds everyone accountable for ironing them out.

 

[BassJuju]

Copy and paste this post, print it, and take it to the meeting.

They're aware. I've not said anything here that they wouldn't say themselves. Yet, no practices are scheduled.

 

[electracoyote]

They're aware. I've not said anything here that they wouldn't say themselves. Yet, no practices are scheduled.

I hope you'll re-read the second line of my post. It's not about talent, it's not about being aware. It's about giving a damn and taking action.

Good luck with it. If you think you and your audiences deserve better, you're probably right.

 

[MrLenny1]

IMHO never good enough.
It's very very hard to motivate people
on a single idea in bands. Always frustrating.

 

[kmon]

The best band I was ever in, by far, was a group of moderately talented musicians who shared an internal drive to be part of a great sounding, rockin' band. There was never a need for a sit-down, for difficult discussions, or come-to-jesus moments. We were all on the same page, and that made the "work" part of the project easy.

That was also my first band, which I left after we had twins. I had no idea that I had caught lightning in a bottle with that crew...

Subsequent attempts have crashed and burned. I'll try again post-covid, but I've learned that putting together a band that works, meaning same page on quality and willing to do the work to get there, is really, really hard.

 

[SactoBass]

Awesome! Wish I could have heard the group.

Mediocrity does abound. There's a reason why you see so few bands adding Yes songs to their set list, let alone Yes tribute bands.

Thanks BV!

The only reason I was able to play that material in that band is because I had been playing it for *many* years prior to that by myself. Christopher Russell Edward Squire was a bass monster! Add on top of that his odd contrapuntal vocal harmonies sung simultaneously with his bass playing, sometimes I would wonder if he was from this planet.

 

[Shalto]

Good enough is literally good enough, so maybe being pedantic about the semantics (possible band name there btw)matters, because in this thread good enough seems to mean something between mediocre without reaching the depths of incompetent.

As a general comment about mediocrity, being ok vs being good etc, I think it depends on the situation. You have to be pretty good to be worth paying, but I'd settle for competent from a band of part time hobbyists playing for peanuts or nothing.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Good enough is literally good enough, so maybe being pedantic about the semantics (possible band name there btw)matters, because in this thread good enough seems to mean something between mediocre without reaching the depths of incompetent.

As a general comment about mediocrity, being ok vs being good etc, I think it depends on the situation. You have to be pretty good to be worth paying, but I'd settle for competent from a band of part time hobbyists playing for peanuts or nothing.

Precisely. Good enough to hold the stage equals good enough. Plenty of very good bands aren't good enough to command more than a few hundred dollars for an evening. Good enough though!

 

[Freeze Andy]

Here is my thoughts. Everyband i joined hasnt been talented enough to just play. But having said that after 2-3 rehearsals we have generally been good enough to play. Now lets define good enough. Run down a few songs and sound good, maybe not brilliant but good. I have played with sloppy drummers and guitarists before and its still managed to sound ok. A few times with guitarists who had tickets on them selves and sounded shite. Now mistakes are gonna be made, less and less as you rehearse more and get to know the songs more. You aint gonna get professionally tight rehearsing once a week or playing once a week. But you will get better. It takes 6months for a group of guys to gel well. If nobody wants to rehearse it can only mean 2 things. The are supremely talented or you need to get out. Now you can go the other way. One recent band i joined, we rehearsed for 6 months and played once. Now that sapped the life out of me. And after 6 months we didnt exactly set the world on fire, we could have played after 3 rehearsals but it was always, oh we arent good enough yet. If you cant play live after 2-3 rehearsals, practice more on your own cause your not ready.