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Double Bass Is it bad to mark positions?

#41
No, it is not a bad thing to mark the bass.

But DON'T use stickers! Stickers will move around and leave gunk on the board. I have a teaching degree, so I spent some time teaching in grade schools and high schools, and I can vouch for how badly the stickers work. Kids put their finger on a sticker that's moved around and won't adjust - they must be right, 'cause they're on the sticker...@#$#$%^!!!

I use discreet pencil marks. So do my two main teachers, one of whom was principal bass in the LA Phil. I won my job six weeks ago with discreet pencil marks on my bass. Marking the bass is not a bad thing, but STICKERS are a BAD and un-subtle thing.

Use pencil marks.

KPO
Louisville Orchestra
 
#42
Congratulations on your successful audition, kpo

Lee Mesch, assoc. principal DB with the Met, has inlaid dots in his fingerboard (they were there when he bought the bass). Now, all of his students are asking Arnold Schnitzer, his luthier, to inlay their fingerboards. I have to admit, it looks pretty cool. Who? Me? Are you kidding? Do I look like I'd do that?

Michael Moore was watching Meyer on TV with his wife, a court judge. Seeing the dots, she was indignant. "That's cheating, isn't it?", she said.
 
#43
SottoVoce I've seen many bassists using marks, you are not going to always play in conditions where you can hear clearly your bass, even more recording with a large ensemble, do whatever you feel comfortable with, I've seem major players using pencil marks in a given situation, in music there's no such a thing as cheating, if you achieve better intonation looking at your fingerboard than a guy that plays with his/hers eyes closed I am pretty sure you got the gig, the marks are only landmarks,the same way you learn how to "feel the neck" with your thumb specially when you get to the D block you can also use your eyes, why not? just don't become a handicap,and remember the most important is your ears, your ears will always be the judge, good luck.
 
#44
I can relate to where Sotto is coming from. When I bought my DB, it already had semi-permanent markings on it. I feel it was the best idea. It allowed me to transfer previous knowledge from my electric to DB pretty quickly. Because of this, I was able to begin private lessons immediately with somebody who got me working on Simandl. By being able to initially see where the notes were, I could be more certain I knew how they sounded. I found it didn't take long at all before I was playing without the use of the markings. They're still there, but very rarely referred to. Long story longer: I don't think they're a bad idea, so long as they are used as a training tool rather than a crutch.
 
#45
I play the DB regularly around Boston in jazz ensembles and jamband new-groove stuff. I do have markers on my bass, small dots on the side next to the G and A respectively on the E string, also I have a dot on the octave on front of the fingerboard.

I am not dependant on these markers, but they do act as a means of calibration for when I start playing, occasionally I will play based on the markers - especially when doing extended runs up or down the neck.

I say - "whatever's clever" for finding the notes. Ultimately the listener doesn't care how the notes are found - as long as you and the band sound good.

Projection is a bigger issue to me...
 
#47
Originally posted by Don Higdon
Any student of Linda McKnight found looking at either hand quickly regrets it.
Click to expand...

Well, that's good for the lesson time, but how about in the Audition, or when you're playing Berg?
Tactile memory is of the utmost importance for a string player, yet....

Different teachers will, of course, insist on different things... I personally insist on finding the correct pitch all the time, every time, using all reasonable resources.
 
#49
Originally posted by Don Higdon


As does McKnight. Teachers have their own ways of getting you there. As demanding as she can be on any particular facet, I, and others, end up somehow grateful that she was.
Click to expand...

I wonder if she looked at her hands in her audition?

I had two teachers who were insistent that I not look, and I'm grateful for that. I'm even MORE grateful for my two teachers who admitted that every bass player will do some looking, and one in particular who "allowed" the use of pencil dots on my finger board... and then I won my audition.

I used to insist on my students go by hearing and tactile memory only, now I split it up, and they're doing quite well.

Perhaps the "No Looking" part is a phase that everyone *should* go through at length, but I would never insist on that in the long run.
 
#51
I have two comments.

1) Try using white or yellow china marker. It comes off with some elbow grease, and you have to keep re-applying it, and asking yourself if you really need it.

2) Look at Edgar Meyer's bass. Yes, those are inlayed mother of peal position indicators.


If it's good enough for Edgar........


Need I say Meyer? er, More?



With Work
 
#52
I know this is an old post, but I thought I could add something interesting to the discussion. I have habit (good or bad) to memorize my music, something I find just happens in my efforts learning my music. This tends to let me concentrate more on my intonation, be it glancing at my left hand and listening to my intonation. I am also able to watch the conductor better, and communicate with the drummer more (when I am playing jazz). I am wondering though, are there any bad facets to not paying attention to the actually sheet music by having it memorized, and more on how my music fits in with the ensemble? Mainly, I wonder if it may impare my sight reading abilities as far as my intonation is concerned?
 
#53
Originally posted by mrjasonpries
I have habit (good or bad) to memorize my music, something I find just happens in my efforts learning my music.
Click to expand...

Hmmm . . . "memorization" is one small step away from "forgetting" which is not even a step away from "trainwreck." I'm not saying that there are no tunes I've "memorized" -- Giant Steps,, for instance, did not come easy -- but it's something I try to avoid if I can really learn a piece instead.

As reflected in these old posts:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66876&highlight=memorize+internalize

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30273&highlight=memorize+internalize
 
#54
Originally posted by mrjasonpries
I have habit (good or bad) to memorize my music, something I find just happens in my efforts learning my music. This tends to let me concentrate more on my intonation,... I am also able to watch the conductor better, and communicate with the drummer more (when I am playing jazz).
I am wondering though, are there any bad facets to not paying attention to the actually sheet music by having it memorized, and more on how my music fits in with the ensemble? Mainly, I wonder if it may impare my sight reading abilities as far as my intonation is concerned?
Click to expand...

I can't imagine a "bad facet" to internalizing your music. That should make you quicker to adjust in any situation, and will let you you be more free to make music in any situation. If you happen to be looking at your left hand while playing, cool, as long as you can still be aware of everything going on around you.
 
#55
I've known a bassist who, unlike Edgar Meyer with the big pearl dots, would use a jewelers drill to mark notes on his fingerboard. Only maybe three up in the thumb positions. The beauty of this is that the holes are so small, you can't see them, but you can feel the rough edges with your fingers. If I felt like I needed markers, I guess this is the way I would go....If you try this, don't forget to not smooth down the edges of the holes.
By the way, I keep my eyes closed most of the time! Being an old Jazzer and knowing MOST all the tunes in the jazz vocabulary, I have no need to open them except for special or conducted endings. Actually, I don't think I could play a solo with my eyes open.:cool:
 
#56
I have been very tempted to mark my bass on several occasions, but have resisted. My biggest fear is having a huge intro and being off-pitch. So far, I have never missed so far I couldn't slide into the right note in a fairly subtle way. (If I miss, 99 times out of 100 I will be flat) But, if I have the time to warm up for 15 minutes or so, I am usually fine.

I bought Mchildree's Strunal that was posted here not too long ago on behalf of our church. When I finally got around to playing it the other day, I noticed that someone had put pencil marks on the inside of the neck at the 3rd and 5th stops. I don't know if it was Mike or our guy, but I did exactly as I feared I would. I found myself looking at those marks instead of listening.

The truth is, it just doesn't take that long to train your ears to know if you are off pitch.

As for memorizing, I can't help but memorize something if I have played it a few times. I still will track along the music with my eyes though. I don't trust myself that much.
 
#57
However, if you are in a situation where you can't hear yourself very well, or not sure what the mix will be like, they are very useful. Of course we all prefer to play by ear, it is much more accurate when done correctly. Its just that live, sometimes I need a little help due to a loud guitarist, horn section in my ear, or whatever.
 
#58
SottoVoce said:
Unfortunately the markers are carved into the neck, ...The markers are on the side where the fingerboard joins the neck (where the black meets the wood -- is that correct terminology?). They're actually not very conspicuous.
Click to expand...

A thought: How about a long strip of (smooth) tape covering all the carved markers? Apply very neatly I should think.
 
#60
fsanfili said:
It occurs to me that marking the BACK of the neck so that you could feel with your thumb whether or not you were in the right place for, say 3rd position, would be handier than having markings on the fingerboard itself. Has anyone tried something along these lines?
Click to expand...

Considering any little scratch, bump, blip or otherwise on the back of the neck drives me nuts, this would put me in a padded cell in no time.
 

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