Double Bass Is it bad to mark positions?

[Johnny L]

Maybe this came from Paul Warburton...can't remember anymore...about Red Mitchell putting in some brass knobs on the back of the neck of his bass to find positions. Pictures were even provided as evidence. Search for it and appreciate human ingenuity.

 

[Paul Warburton]

Maybe this came from Paul Warburton...can't remember anymore...about Red Mitchell putting in some brass knobs on the back of the neck of his bass to find positions. Pictures were even provided as evidence. Search for it and appreciate human ingenuity.

Johnny..that pic of Red's Claudot was posted by it's new owner, John Donnelly. Search under John's name.

 

[Don Higdon]

Maybe this came from Paul Warburton...can't remember anymore...about Red Mitchell putting in some brass knobs on the back of the neck of his bass to find positions. Pictures were even provided as evidence. Search for it and appreciate human ingenuity.

Full disclosure - Red did this when he changed to tuning in fifths.

 

[BenderR]

This is one time when being a mere EB player is actually an asset because the differing levels of fret marking on fretless EBs provides a test bed.

Until recently I played an Fender Jazz Bass model with a lined fingerboard. Then I tried out a Warwick fretless with an unlined board and it seemed that intonation became easier and more accurate. I repeated this experiment on subsequent visits to the music store and every time the result was the same. My intonation cleaned up considerably without the intense visual "aid" of the inlayed fret lines. I bought the Warwick.

Now I must admit that there are still side-dot markers on the fingerboard but I find that it is rare for me even to notice them. I know that this is a bit off to the side of the topic of this thread but I just wanted to contribute my conclusion which is, too much help can hurt you.

 

[Scot]

Maybe I'm missing something but....I don't really see anyone arguing that lines and/or markers are to be used as replacements to the ears. Isn't the point that markers may be useful if, for example, you need to hit a note clean way up in thumb position and the style of music dictates that it's not desireable to use a device like sliding into the note and/or adding vibrato or some other trick to help you "tune up" the note? I just fail to see the "if you're using markers you're not using your ears" logic. If you've got ears your ears are going to override the markers if necessary, right?

-Scot

 

[matt macgown]

A starting B flat on a phrase above the G harmonic on the G string, a Shostakovitch(?), I think, and 8 or 9 basses. Conductor yelled out, "Put a G- D - Marker on it, basses!" Everything went pretty smooth after that. Sometimes it's a good plan.

 

[Haynzy]

I already put this in another thread but just in case it doesn't get read there I'll repeat myself.
Maybe I just like the sound of my own voice.

I have a couple of visual marks on the side of my finger board/neck. I really only use them when I am struggling to hear myself.
My responsibility as the bassist is to play in time and in tune, I need to support the rest of my band and if my out of tune note/s throw my singer then I am not doing my job.
My ego doesn't prohibit me from using mechanical means as well as aural means to do my job properly.
Neither does my willingness to use mechanical means diminish the importance of being able to hear that I am in tune(or not).
In the end the better your technique the less you will need to refer to the markings.

 

[Don Higdon]

I personally think you can do anything you want if it makes you feel better and sound better as long as it doesn't limit you in some other way.

Right on the money.

 

[springbogen]

On one of the basses I used there was a real little bit of white nail polish (smaller than the tip of a pencil) on the side of the neck. It was at half and third position. It really helped me to get accustomed to the bass. When I felt ready I just took a blunt knife, and *gently* scraped it off.

 

[Snakewood]

I have three markings. Octave G on the G string, the D above that, and then the High G

I personally think markings show a lot of merit in thumb position, because no one likes to hear a solo out of tune. Just be careful to not mark every internal inbetween, because if you go to an audition and there is no screen, the panel won't be too impressed. Don't use anything permanent; perhaps just a little inlay mark with a pencil.

 

[Steve Brooks]

if it's good enough for the New York Philharmonic, then something tells me it is good enough for the rest of us...

 

[kraid]

Any student of Linda McKnight found looking at either hand quickly regrets it.

That's odd, she's never said anything about that to me before and I often look at my hands a lot when I play.

 

[Don Higdon]

if it's good enough for the New York Philharmonic, then something tells me it is good enough for the rest of us...

Who? Did I miss something?

 

[anonymous0726]

...Actually, I don't think I could play a solo with my eyes open.

Check playing with your eyes open some time. Peer around the band stand and the room. I've found that it does wonders in allowing you to step outside of yourself and really be a third party to the subconcious.

Christ, that sounds esoterical -- but you know what I'm getting at. All part of my studies to be able to attain 'The Zone' at will.

 

[Kneehimiah]

This appears to be an old thread, but I felt like commenting on this subject. And I've been away for a minute from the TalkBass forums. Anyway...There's a big part of bass playing that is aligned with what other artists do. Even what athletes do. We are all joined with performing an act, easy or difficult, and being skillfull at it. In another month or so the Olympics will be in full swing. Ice skaters are not aided by taping a spot on the ice where they will land, to get a jump right. More technically even, they aren't aided by wearing a brace that holds their body in a particular position, for instance, the position that the body is in when a triple axel is performed. That would be dumb, anyway. There is an approach to the jump, a leap, then the correct positioning of the body in the air, and finally the landing and follow-through. Most or all of these elements are valid in bass playing. You can tape the bass, but you can't tape your arm into the proper position to place your hand where the tape is. You can't tape your head in the proper place alongside your instrument. Where are your feet? Better tape them too. There's a place in your bosom that the bass rests. Tape might not work there. Now you'll need a hammer, nails, and 2X4's! Suck in before nailing! Tape works if you've only one note to play. If you have more than one note then many other elements apply. My only trick here is to tap the strings with my left hand on the fingerboard, and with my thumb sticking out off the bass, touch my thumb against my ear. The sound will resonate. Other than this, which is highly inpractical in most situations, my only advice is to practice. Bass playing, like hitting a ball, doing gymnastics, archery (use of tape here could put an eye out), shooting a basketball into a hoop (very difficult at any height-where do you put the tape here?), playing hockey (try taping all over, mummy style), etc.,
is an exacting science.

Good luck,

Ramon Pooser
www.ramonpooser.com

P.S. Happy New Year folks!!!

 

[Uncletoad]

Check playing with your eyes open some time. Peer around the band stand and the room. I've found that it does wonders in allowing you to step outside of yourself and really be a third party to the subconcious.

Christ, that sounds esoterical -- but you know what I'm getting at. All part of my studies to be able to attain 'The Zone' at will.

Ohh man that is freaky. Zone with my eyes open. Feel very weird just thinking about it.

Takes me WAY outside my comfort zone.

Obviously that means I'll need to try it.

 

[anonymous0726]

Outside the comfort zone IS where The Zone is, after all. We all find a lot of safety in our neurosis and tension, etc.

 

[anonymous0726]

...but I felt like commenting on this subject...

In theory, perhaps. In reality? I have to disagree.

Once your hands and ears are at it, mostly any markings will go ignored. Short of a 2 1/2 foot jump or something. Where I would find markings handy is having to hit things cold, and awkward shifts that are so hopelessly exposed that you don't have any sort of opportunity to layer any adjustments musically. There are two or three spots in the show that I just finished where I was really wanting some sort of 'start here-ish'

Kinda like the skaters moving to a particular location on the ice

Tradition, which gives us unmarked instruments, can be a real shackle.

Sorry if my Pragma ran over your Dogma

 

[Kneehimiah]

Sorry if my Pragma ran over your Dogma [/QUOTE]

I don't mind, just don't use duct tape (LOL). Incidently there was nearly an incident at the jam session last week. A bass player played my bass with white tape on his fingertip. It left more gunk on my bass than you can imagine. Needless to say, I was...touched. I had no alcohol with me (is a bass first aid kit no, an ER surgical setup necessary to carry to a gig) so I got a shot of whiskey from the bar. It took a few minutes, but I got it off. This nut (the bass player) then walked to the edge of the stage (the club was packed, and I made them wait for me to clean my instrument) to apologize. Unfortunately he was out of roundhouse range.

Ramon
www.ramonpooser.com

 

[anonymous0726]

That's as bad as a guy that sat in on mine one time, formed blisters, popped them, then broke his fingers wide open and bled all over my bass. It took a couple of passes (wash, rinse, repeat) with a damp towel to get all of the gore offa my fiddle. The blood on the strings spattered the whole front of the fiddle from the vibration of the strings. Chee-rist.