• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Is it really Tolex? Does it matter?

dog1

dog1

Dec 30, 2008
933
36
72
Indiana
#1
In the early 70's, Sunn had a big advertising campaign when it announced it's new amp covering called Tolex. This was not the conventional vinyl used by Fender (or anyone else) back in those days. Instead, it was a hard-as-nails covering with an extremely rough surface. It was nearly indestructable, and may explain why any Sunn amps from that period of time still look pretty good.

Now, it is common for manufacturers to call their "vinyl" covering.....Tolex. So, is it really Tolex? Does it really matter? Are their any other old guys out there who remember what I am talking about?

Just a thought
 
#2
According to Wikipedia (with no substantiating sources),
Tolex is the trade name of a flexible vinyl material used to cover Fender amplifiers, Coffin Case guitar cases and guitar cases from the 1960s onwards.

Tolex was filed as a trademark on August 30, 1945 by the Textileather Corporation, and is currently registered as "a plastic sheet and film material for book binding and case covering for speakers and amplifiers".

Tolex was also used in marine upholstery applications found in classic Chris-Craft models and other boats.

Although the term "Tolex" is often used as a generic description for any amplifier or guitar case vinyl-type covering, most are not actually Tolex brand except for Fender and Rickenbacker related products.
Click to expand...

My guess is, if Sunn used the term "Tolex" then either they were infringing on a trademarked name, or they were using a different product that was also manufactured by Textileather Corp.
 
#4
It's General Tire and Rubber now, and has been since the 1980s at the very least. They probably bought up the "Textileather" company.

As for does it matter?

YES.

We used BOTH "Tolex" and another fairly widely-used brand, for Crate and Ampeg both. The Tolex stuck better with the glues, the backing cloth was heavier and much better bonded to the plastic material. The competitor backing was like loose cheesecloth, the Tolex like t-shirt material.

We used the competitor only because they had some patterns that Tolex did not.

I really annoyed the competitor with the "hammer test". We covered a piece of board with Tolex, and an identical piece with the "other brand".

I then took a hammer, and hit each one several times at an angle, so that the hammer 'glanced off" the surface, but hit reasonably hard. About like thunking into a doorpost when you are loading in or out.

The Tolex was slightly scuffed, as you would expect. The competitor "brand X" material was scuffed also, but it also de-bonded, so that area was bagging out and no longer glued on. the backing had released from the plastic.

If you or your roadies ever bang things against doorposts, etc, you want Tolex, IMO........ Unless you know the secrets that our cabinet folks knew..... they got the "brand X to stick well, but I don't know what they did.
 
#5
Jerrold,

I think the Tolex/vinyl production was spun off as a new company (Omnova) in 1999.

Back in late 2006/early 2007 I was trying to track down the producer of the Diamond Blue Tolex since, at the time, it had gotten almost impossible to come by. I had been told that Gene Kornblum had gone to General Rubber in the 80's (?) and had a new die made to start producing the checked Tolex again (for the Deja Blue amps). I was never able to confirm if General Rubber/Omnova were still making the Diamond Blue around 2005/2006. Ultimately, it didn't matter, since it eventually became available again, once production had shifted overseas.

I definitely preferred the pre-Loud Diamond Blue Tolex. It seemed tougher and it had a good, strong, DARK backing. The new stuff has a white backing that can be separated from the vinyl. I'll never understand why somebody thought using a white backing on a navy blue vinyl was a good idea! You have to keep a black marker nearby to touch up the edges.
 
#6
Vintage-Blue said:
Jerrold,

I think the Tolex/vinyl production was spun off as a new company (Omnova) in 1999.

Back in late 2006/early 2007 I was trying to track down the producer of the Diamond Blue Tolex since, at the time, it had gotten almost impossible to come by. I had been told that Gene Kornblum had gone to General Rubber in the 80's (?) and had a new die made to start producing the checked Tolex again (for the Deja Blue amps). I was never able to confirm if General Rubber/Omnova were still making the Diamond Blue around 2005/2006. Ultimately, it didn't matter, since it eventually became available again, once production had shifted overseas.

I definitely preferred the pre-Loud Diamond Blue Tolex. It seemed tougher and it had a good, strong, DARK backing. The new stuff has a white backing that can be separated from the vinyl. I'll never understand why somebody thought using a white backing on a navy blue vinyl was a good idea! You have to keep a black marker nearby to touch up the edges.
Click to expand...

yeah, that separation is what I was talking about above......

I don't know about the supplier..... the diamond blue may have been made by the "brand-X" people....... their calendering rollers (the thing that puts in the pattern) were usually cheaper, and they had finally figured out how to make the backing stick.

Or, we might have actually used GTR. I don't have access to the vendor list crossed-over by part number. if teh backing was like a t-shirt it likely was GTR.
 
#12
Hawaii Islander said:
I read that Tolex was alsoused as the vinyl roofing on automobiles. I don't have the original article in front of me. Any one know if this is true? That stuff was pretty tough.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure I've read that too. For what it's worth, here's a photo of Jess Oliver's car after he had the roof recovered with Ampeg Diamond Blue Tolex:


072709a.jpg
 
#13
Hawaii Islander said:
I read that Tolex was alsoused as the vinyl roofing on automobiles. I don't have the original article in front of me. Any one know if this is true? That stuff was pretty tough.
Click to expand...
I can't say, but it was certainly used for more than just amps and speakers, as that was far too small a market to sustain production of the product. Besides, Leo Fender almost never used any proprietary parts, as that would have made them more expensive. Fender used Tolex back to at least 1960.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#14
Fender advertised Tolex to be from General Tire company as far back as the early 70's - maybe even the 60's but definitely in the early 70's.
Not all amp coverings were Tolex and the old Fenders hold up extremely well. Those old tube amps are tanks.
Jerrold Tiers said:
It's General Tire and Rubber now, and has been since the 1980s at the very least. They probably bought up the "Textileather" company.

As for does it matter?

YES.

We used BOTH "Tolex" and another fairly widely-used brand, for Crate and Ampeg both. The Tolex stuck better with the glues, the backing cloth was heavier and much better bonded to the plastic material. The competitor backing was like loose cheesecloth, the Tolex like t-shirt material.

We used the competitor only because they had some patterns that Tolex did not.

I really annoyed the competitor with the "hammer test". We covered a piece of board with Tolex, and an identical piece with the "other brand".

I then took a hammer, and hit each one several times at an angle, so that the hammer 'glanced off" the surface, but hit reasonably hard. About like thunking into a doorpost when you are loading in or out.

The Tolex was slightly scuffed, as you would expect. The competitor "brand X" material was scuffed also, but it also de-bonded, so that area was bagging out and no longer glued on. the backing had released from the plastic.

If you or your roadies ever bang things against doorposts, etc, you want Tolex, IMO........ Unless you know the secrets that our cabinet folks knew..... they got the "brand X to stick well, but I don't know what they did.
Click to expand...
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back