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Is it reasonable to ask for pay?

#21
Unfortunately, many churches don't pay their musicians. The reason I got back into playing bass was for the church. But it is reasonable for any leadership position to receive compensation ...though certainly not a professional level of pay (enough to cover gas and other expenses). If not, do what you are led to do...no judgment here, just no need to have any resentment for playing in church.
 
#22
In My opinion there is nothing wrong with asking for compensation.
The problem is that you have been doing everything they ask for 4-5 years for no compensation.
Suddenly asking to be paid for something that you have done for free for 5 years is not going to be received well. YOU have set the precedence.
All I can suggest at this point is to just politely tell them " Sorry I will not be able to be here on {insert dates here} because I am not working, and don't even have money for gas.

Then you will see how "Christian" they really are.
 
#23
Here's my take on it...and I have been in a similar situation.

First, accept the fact that you aren't likely to get paid at this church--the pastor already made that pretty clear.

Write down the things that you enjoy doing, and the things that cause unwanted pressure. Only agree to those things that you enjoy doing for free....anything else, and you expect to be compensated. And I agree with this statement "All I can suggest at this point is to just politely tell them " Sorry I will not be able to be here on {insert dates here} because I am not working, and don't even have money for gas." I suggest agreeing to play no more than once or twice a month...nothing else.

This is perfectly reasonable and you are still providing your church with your musical gift...but not being taken advantage of as free labor--which is exactly what your paid worship leader is doing; all of the other responsibilities are his/hers and are why they are collecting a paycheck.
 
#24
joeyc143 said:
Alright guys. Thanks for the responses. I never said anywhere in my post about making a living off of this. Its a matter of principle.
Click to expand...
Principle isn't worth much. Do you like what you are doing? Is it worth losing your position over a principle? If you bail will someone else jump in and do what you do for free, like you have been doing for years? The old saw about not having to buy a cow if milk is free comes to mind.

My advice is to be pragmatic. If the money you are asking isn't enough to make a significant difference in your financial picture, then it's not worth pursuing. If your skills are worth money on the open market, then go forth and seek employment elsewhere. Otherwise keep doing what you have been doing with a smile; a bad attitude is not going to get you anywhere.

A hard lesson for many of us to learn is that just because you work hard at something doesn't mean that it's going to pay. A service, just like anything else, is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
 
#25
ggunn said:
Principle isn't worth much.



A service, just like anything else, is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
Click to expand...

Principle at a church certainly SHOULD be worth something.

The problem here is that while the service provided does in fact have value, people who have become accustomed to getting said service for FREE, are going to be resistant to suddenly being charged.
Be it a church, or an individual.
 
#26
You’re doing the work of an assistant music director and more, so it’s absolutely not unreasonable to ask for compensation for your work rendered. And it’s not unreasonable to stop rendering your labor if the church leadership doesn't want to compensate you for your labor. I also agree with the above LDS member that it may not necessarily be a good reason to leave the congregation, and could depend on how it plays out. BTW, with 5 fulltime and 4 part time pastors and they already said no to gas, I have a feeling you won't get paid - but, good luck.

joeyc143 said:
Alright guys. Thanks for the responses. I never said anywhere in my post about making a living off of this. Its a matter of principle. I haven't been able to afford to buy a new pair of pants in the past year. I am very depressed because they can just toss me to the side like nothing after all these years. Did I mention I played on two full length albums that the church released? I didn't even consider compensation when I was doing that because I had some small form of income and I was happy. Now I'm depressed and I'm sure any one of you would be too if your talent on bass was taken for granted. We are not a church on a small budget. We have many out of the country ministries, a large and ever growing congregation, and we even have plans to expand. Not to mention there are 4 full timers plus 5 part time pastors there. I'm not asking for much. I don't want this to be my living. I just feel like something to make me feel more appreciated is what I need to keep from feeling depressed. Is it wrong that I want to feel self worth from my faithfulness? You are certainly proving that to me guys.

So I appreciate everyone telling me about finding a 'real' job, but that isn't what I am asking. You are getting off topic. I just wanted to know if it's fair to ask because I go above and beyond. Anyway, thanks for all the input.
Click to expand...
 
#27
xgator4u said:
In My opinion there is nothing wrong with asking for compensation.
The problem is that you have been doing everything they ask for 4-5 years for no compensation.
Suddenly asking to be paid for something that you have done for free for 5 years is not going to be received well. YOU have set the precedence.
All I can suggest at this point is to just politely tell them " Sorry I will not be able to be here on {insert dates here} because I am not working, and don't even have money for gas.

Then you will see how "Christian" they really are.
Click to expand...

+1. At this point it may be best not to even ask for compensation, since the answer it most likely to be no and it may cause an uncomfortable situation, and just tell them due to financial problems you can’t afford to do it anymore, and back out.
 
#28
Perhaps you could offer to teach bass for money? My first bass teacher was a worship leader as well. His "real job" is teaching bass/guitar/drums. I paid for lessons and also played a few times at his church before joining the worship team at my church.
When I first arrived at my current church, I did not know how to play guitar at all. I bought an acoustic and asked if there was anyone in the church whom I might be able to pay for lessons. The worship leader told me that they'd been praying for a bassist so I returned the guitar and bought a bass. Lucky me!
So....I guess that I'd say that I would not consider asking for money for the time I spend on the worship team but I would consider hanging up a shingle to offer lessons for money.
 
#32
joeyc143 said:
Alright guys. Thanks for the responses. I never said anywhere in my post about making a living off of this. Its a matter of principle. I haven't been able to afford to buy a new pair of pants in the past year. I am very depressed because they can just toss me to the side like nothing after all these years. Did I mention I played on two full length albums that the church released? I didn't even consider compensation when I was doing that because I had some small form of income and I was happy. Now I'm depressed and I'm sure any one of you would be too if your talent on bass was taken for granted. We are not a church on a small budget. We have many out of the country ministries, a large and ever growing congregation, and we even have plans to expand. Not to mention there are 4 full timers plus 5 part time pastors there. I'm not asking for much. I don't want this to be my living. I just feel like something to make me feel more appreciated is what I need to keep from feeling depressed. Is it wrong that I want to feel self worth from my faithfulness? You are certainly proving that to me guys.

So I appreciate everyone telling me about finding a 'real' job, but that isn't what I am asking. You are getting off topic. I just wanted to know if it's fair to ask because I go above and beyond. Anyway, thanks for all the input.
Click to expand...

I'm confused - is the issue here your money needs or your need for affirmation to fend off depression?

If the real issue is that you need money, I don't see that the advice to look elsewhere than your church for it is such off-topic advice.

If the real issue is affirmation and depression, 1) I suspect that any depression you're feeling has contributing factors other than your bass playing/church situation, and 2) I seriously doubt that getting paid is going to solve it. There are other forms of appreciation besides being paid, and lots of people make money in jobs where they still don't feel appreciated.

What I've seen on the thread so far is agreement that musical work is, in principle, worth paying, but that the odds of this church actually paying you sound pretty slim.

kalanb said:
Do you think they would be interested in expanding your duties into a 20 hours per week paid part time position?
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This sounds like the most realistic possibility of persuading this church to pay you. What you've been doing so far, you've done as a volunteer, and it's unlikely they're going to see it as anything other than volunteer ministry; the only way to make that transition would be to make a change in the situation and take on increased responsibility.
 
#36
joeyc143 said:
Well, I spoke to lead pastor about it today and got a no. It's all good. I like the idea of giving lessons to members of the congregation, maybe I will look into that. Otherwise, I will probably take my talent elsewhere. Thanks for the advice.
Click to expand...

Not surprised, but sorry to hear it. Glad you asked, at least now you know. Good luck!
 
#37
Am i the only one who is reading this and going .... "What????"

I have played in my church 10-12 hours a week at least for over the last 10 years and i am only 21. I don't expect to be paid because you know this is how i honor the gifts God has given me. IMHO saying i deserve pay from "God" is throwing it back in his face.

If you can't pay to go to all these events, just say i can't afford to go and leave it like that, if they want to help you financially with getting to church or with food or whatever that's fine, but effectively demanding a job isn't the way to go.

Maybe you are just worn out not "depressed", this can happen and i have been in this position many times, people don't value me that much until i am not there then they freak out. My advice is to get a job and cut down on your activities, if they ask you whats say you are strapped for cash, that you are getting a job to become self sufficient and when you have the resources you will start serving properly again.
 
#39
joeyc143 said:
Well, I spoke to lead pastor about it today and got a no. It's all good. I like the idea of giving lessons to members of the congregation, maybe I will look into that. Otherwise, I will probably take my talent elsewhere. Thanks for the advice.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was pretty sure that’s how it was going to play out, so I’m not surprised. You also mentioned that the church leadership doesn’t show any appreciation for your labor - if I was a betting man, I’d bet if the senior pastors salary was cutoff he would leave the church in a heartbeat, so don’t let anyone try to make you feel bad if you decide you can no longer afford to work for free. Anyway, good luck and have a good week.
 
#40
joeyc143 said:
I am very depressed because they can just toss me to the side like nothing after all these years. Did I mention I played on two full length albums that the church released? I didn't even consider compensation when I was doing that because I had some small form of income and I was happy. Now I'm depressed and I'm sure any one of you would be too if your talent on bass was taken for granted. We are not a church on a small budget. We have many out of the country ministries, a large and ever growing congregation, and we even have plans to expand. Not to mention there are 4 full timers plus 5 part time pastors there. I'm not asking for much. I don't want this to be my living. I just feel like something to make me feel more appreciated is what I need to keep from feeling depressed.
Click to expand...

Good morning! I, like you, play bass at my church. I often play more than one day a week at the church, which usually means more than one set list. I can relate to your level of time investment. I am also involved in an outside music ministry, which is equally if not more time consuming. There is no financial compensation for either at this point in time, and I'm okay with that. I choose to be in these ministries because I believe I have been called to them. I serve in these ministries to reach people for Christ, and for no other reason.

Just a few things to ponder...

-If you are truly serving with a servants heart, where is this feeling of entitlement coming from?

-I think you are loosing sight of the fact that this is a talent given to you by God. It is not "your" talent that you have so graciously decided to use for his benefit.

-If you need to feel appreciated for what you are doing, then again I am going to question your motive for serving in this capacity.

-You are a volunteer. There is nothing wrong with lessening or even terminating your level of committment if you need to for personal reasons.

Before you do anything, pray about it. Bounce it off of those closest to you (your wife, family members, close friends). Really try to determine why it is that you want to ask for this financial compensation. Is it because YOU desire to earn your living playing bass? Is it because YOU are tired of the time committment? I can't imagine 10 hours per week taking away from job searching...you can't honestly spend a full 40 hours per week searching for a job. If anything, I would say that you have more time now than you did when you were working to devote to the ministry. Perhaps if you did it with a servants heart and placed your focus where it should be God would bless you through your efforts.

I hope that you don't find my post insulting, I don't intend for it to be. I do, however, intend to respond to your question very candidly. I also pray that if I am ever in your position with respect to an area of my life that a brother in Christ would do the same for me...

Whatever you do, I wish you the best!
 

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