Is it reasonable to ask for pay?

[TundraMan]

Am i the only one who is reading this and going .... "What????"

I have played in my church 10-12 hours a week at least for over the last 10 years and i am only 21. I don't expect to be paid because you know this is how i honor the gifts God has given me. IMHO saying i deserve pay from "God" is throwing it back in his face.

If you can't pay to go to all these events, just say i can't afford to go and leave it like that, if they want to help you financially with getting to church or with food or whatever that's fine, but effectively demanding a job isn't the way to go.

Maybe you are just worn out not "depressed", this can happen and i have been in this position many times, people don't value me that much until i am not there then they freak out. My advice is to get a job and cut down on your activities, if they ask you whats say you are strapped for cash, that you are getting a job to become self sufficient and when you have the resources you will start serving properly again.

Jmclearnon, you have a great wisdom for your age.

I've been worship leader at one church for 18+ years. For seven of those years I was also worship leader at another church that had their services on a different day. In my more than 25 collective years of doing this I haven't received penny one. Heck, I haven't even been able to get reimbursed for the gear I've had stolen over the years.

Could I throw a fit and demand compensation because they're not "appreciating" me? I suppose I could. I suppose I could even justify it in some weird way.

But the bottom line is, am I doing what God called me to do? If the answer is "yes" then I do it regardless of the compensation or accolades I may or may not be getting. All I have to worry about is being obedient. God can work out the details. If He feels I should be compensated then it's going to happen. If not, then that doesn't change what He's called me to do.

Look on the bright side: as a non-paid position I have no guilt telling the congregation I'm going to take an occasional Sunday off (3 -4 times per year.)

 

[BassChuck]

I was asked to play for a worship band. I asked what the pay was and they told me it for the 'glory of God', and there would be no pay. Then I asked them, "If its really for the glory of God, why to you want to do it on the cheap?" (yea, no answer)

 

[cnltb]

I just don't have the qualifications that most churches require.

What are those?
just curious.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

It is certainly fair to ask for some compensation. However, it is the church's decision whether they are willing to pay you. I think if you should write a list of all the things you do for the program including how much time you invest. You should then decide what part of that time you are willing to continue investing without compensation and decide what tasks you feel you should not do if there is no compensation forthcoming. Present this to your pastor and make it clear that you still wish to help the church, but that too much is currently being asked of you and you cannot financially or emotionally continue with the status quo.

Definitely this. Make sure they know exactly what you're doing in extreme detail to make the church a better place to worship. Make them see the hours of hard work you're putting into the service to make it a wonderful experience for all. Then explain to them that while you love providing service, and plan on continuing to do so no matter what, you will need to be compensated in some form or fashion if you are to continue doing it at the extent you are. Otherwise, you'll be cutting down your commitment to (whatever you feel okay with, I say just playing during service) and won't be doing anything else.

 

[groooooove]

nobody should work for free. sounds like your working. them not paying you for it is not cool.

explain that to them.

 

[alealex]

Hello Joey. The duties that you described would sound great in any resume, that alone makes the time you spent at the church worthwhile from a paying -job- search standpoint :there may be Churches looking for somebody just like you. Ask your pastor to write you a letter of recommendation, tell him you will continue to volunteer as much as possible and you would never ask the Church to take away money from other programs to pay you but that, since you find showing up for Mess without pants unacceptable, you are looking for some sort of income as a musician and a letter from him would help. You will make your point, have something to show for and avoid all kinds of petty arguments.

 

[hrodbert696]

I feel like there's some confusion in a lot of the posts here. We're all agreed that musical skill is indeed a skill that has a value, and there's nothing wrong with being paid for your skilled work. But volunteering is... voluntary. Cooking and serving food is a valuable service, and cooks and waitstaff deserve pay for their work. Yet people also do these tasks in soup kitchens for no pay. Should a soup kitchen cook ask for pay for the cooking he's done for free for years? One could list endless other examples. The point is not whether the work has value or not - it always does - but whether the person doing the work wants to do it voluntarily, out of belief in the cause they're working for, or for pay, for the necessities of getting the bills paid. All organizations that take volunteers express appreciation and gratitude for the work the volunteers do; but that doesn't mean they pay them. The whole point is that volunteers contribute their time, skills, and labor to the cause rather than their money (often they contribute money too). Where do the organizations' budgets come from, other than the voluntary contributions of people who don't have the time to come down and work personally? They use that to pay for the staff whose jobs cannot be done on a volunteer basis, and for facilities and overhead, etc.

Some churches do pay their musicians. There's nothing wrong with the OP's wish to ask if his church might become one of them. But on the other hand, there's nothing wrong with an organization, church or otherwise, gratefully using volunteer workers.

 

[Joe Louvar]

<snip> I serve in these ministries to reach people for Christ, and for no other reason.

Just a few things to ponder...

-If you are truly serving with a servants heart, where is this feeling of entitlement coming from?

-I think you are loosing sight of the fact that this is a talent given to you by God. It is not "your" talent that you have so graciously decided to use for his benefit.

-If you need to feel appreciated for what you are doing, then again I am going to question your motive for serving in this capacity. <snip>

Good post, and not that it matters, but I also agree. However it also applies to pastors as well.

BTW, I wouldn&#8217;t want to be the one to tell someone their talent isn&#8217;t good enough for what man now call's a "worship ministry".

 

[preside]

Any curch that has more than 2 Pastors , more than one or two buildings and has large outreach ministries is a business. Period. Does the office staff work for free? How about the grounds crew, the janitors? Religon can be a big business with a lot of money changing hands and it can be depressing to feel like your the only one not being compensated. It's fine to say talent flows from God but rent and food do not. IF they valued top notch worship music you would be paid to organize it and present it. If they think they can get that for free you wont.

 

[BassChuck]

Any curch that has more than 2 Pastors , more than one or two buildings and has large outreach ministries is a business. Period. Does the office staff work for free? How about the grounds crew, the janitors? Religon can be a big business with a lot of money changing hands and it can be depressing to feel like your the only one not being compensated. It's fine to say talent flows from God but rent and food do not. IF they valued top notch worship music you would be paid to organize it and present it. If they think they can get that for free you wont.

Amen.

 

[mellowinman]

I have asked every woman I have ever dated, and they all agree that it is not reasonable for me to ask for pay.

However, a couple of them actually insisted I pay them.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Any church that has more than 2 Pastors , more than one or two buildings and has large outreach ministries is a business. Period. Does the office staff work for free? How about the grounds crew, the janitors? Religon can be a big business with a lot of money changing hands and it can be depressing to feel like your the only one not being compensated. It's fine to say talent flows from God but rent and food do not. IF they valued top notch worship music you would be paid to organize it and present it. If they think they can get that for free you wont.

This is the church I went to growing up (there are at least 10 others in the general area that are similar in scale, too):

Note that this is only the front side of the church. It goes quite a ways back, too. It's hard to get the scale, but believe me when I say it's huge.

The stage is actually two sided, meaning this is only one half of the entire auditorium. The other half is on the other side of the stage (which also acts as a gymnasium, and has three full sized basketball courts in it).

The wall looking into the gym was up for the concert they were having that night, but you can see the setup they have for their services. You can see the bottoms of the two projectors that they have on the sides of the stage. They have two others on the gym side as well.

Of course some churches operate on a shoe string budget and just barely squeak by while trying to spread the word, but others (such as my old one) have so much pork in them that to call them anything other than a *successful* business would be a farce. Furthermore, to even try to call a musician playing such a place greedy or putting their own interests before god if they were to ask for compensation would be a joke, as the ministry obviously seems to think a huge gymnasium, 20-odd coffee and tea kiosks, and a million dollar sound system are worthy investments towards their duty. Keep in mind, this isn't an attack against religion or even towards big churches; I just think people need a healthy dose of reality and perspective when judging these sorts of situations. Perhaps the OP's church is nothing like this, but even if it were only half, no, a fourth the size of mine I'd say he was getting screwed if he wasn't taking home something at the end of each week for all the work he was doing.