Double Bass Is it time to burn my Real Book?

[jmsbass]

It's not about "accepted chord progressions", it's about getting your head out of the book and LISTENING to what everybody else is playing. Likewise it's not about "over substituting" it's about making a decision about what to play that is not based on the musical situation you are in.
Don't play with the band in your head, play with the one that's on the stand with you. We make music together.

That's a lovely sentiment. It's too bad that the guitarists and keyboardists who scream out bizarre, unmusical changes across the stage in the middle of the song, who STOP playing or get totally lost of you play a ii chord instead of a IV chord, who are ready to blow a gasket because you're not reading their mind on every substitution - it's too bad that they don't share this grand vision.

I'm all about playing by ear. In fact, I do gigs that are nothing BUT free improv - walk onstage and play.

But the truth is, in my experience, the amount of lead players who have "big ears" AND are willing/able to "listen and respond" on ANY scene is shockingly low. It sounds to me like the only thing a lot of guitar/piano/sax guys listen to is themselves.

So if I'm playing a gig with some didactic "substitution monster", I'd at least like to know the progression we're referencing before I succumb to an evening of "guess the root". I can work with (or am expected to work with) whatever they throw at me, but the reverse isn't usually true. That's where a good reference like a lead sheet is a godsend.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

And that's why I live in NYC.

 

[Dave Speranza]

And that's why I live in NYC.

Another reason to live (and love) NYC: walking down the street I see a pile of trash bags out, one is filled with several Aebersold books, along with a real book.

The only city where people dont just *talk* about throwing away the book, they ACTUALLY do it.

 

[jmsbass]

And that's why I live in NYC.

I hear ya. It's just that some of us just can't live on $30 a gig

If you're in a clique where everybody has ears, it's a beautiful thing. I've got a clique of guys who are all on the same page here. Nary a word needs to be said...

But then there are those guys - the ones that are "less than great", but get the big money casuals? I know for a fact NYC has them too.

Got one of those next week, and I'm dreading it. I'll definitely bring the books.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

I hear ya. It's just that some of us just can't live on $30 a gig

If you're in a clique where everybody has ears, it's a beautiful thing. I've got a clique of guys who are all on the same page here. Nary a word needs to be said...

But then there are those guys - the ones that are "less than great", but get the big money casuals? I know for a fact NYC has them too.

Got one of those next week, and I'm dreading it. I'll definitely bring the books.

Actually this doesn't matter in the least. It's just one less on the train...

 

[John Goldsby]

And that's why I live in NYC.

 

[John Goldsby]

When I lived in NYC, I had a nice hotel gig for many years with Ted Rosenthal and Bob Kindred— 7 hours a night, 3 nights a week. We used the Table of Contents to several different fake books, but never used the fake books. We all knew lots of tunes to start with, but the accepted method of learning a new tune was for one of us who "knew" it to actually play it, and the other two guys would learn it on the bandstand. Sometimes for original tunes, we used charts, but then got rid of the charts quickly.

There is a lot of money to be made in NYC—not only the $30 gigs. But as a bass player, you have to: Be able to play hundreds and hundreds of tunes with no fake book, read very well, play extremely well in at least one or two styles, and be able to cover many other styles. Plus, it helps if you have a car, are reliable, willing to do any gig anytime anywhere with anyone, nerves of steel, etc.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Can't be said enough times...

 

[emilio g]

There is a lot of money to be made in NYC—not only the $30 gigs. But as a bass player, you have to: Be able to play hundreds and hundreds of tunes with no fake book, read very well, play extremely well in at least one or two styles, and be able to cover many other styles. Plus, it helps if you have a car, are reliable, willing to do any gig anytime anywhere with anyone, nerves of steel, etc.

Working on it...

 

[John Goldsby]

So after about a combined total of 2 hours of trying to hear the changes on simple tunes using only my ears, aebersolds and CD collection, three things have revealed themselves to me:

1. My ears really aren't all that horrible, I just don't trust them yet! Over and over, I would hear a change, think its something, then change my mind only to discover my initial instinct was correct.

2. Of the mistakes I have been making, some of them were so easy it's silly. They were all chord progressions I've heard before, but I had been reading them more than listening to them. That's where the fakebook was holding me back.

3. After I finished listening to the tune (you and the night and the music) and was hearing everything correctly, hearing it (and playing it) in a different key is so much easier its ridiculous. I was amazed at what a few minutes of listening intensely can do.

This is great, Emilio! That's the way to go about learning tunes by ear. You also mentioned going to the gig and telling the piano player what you are up to—also great. Once you really develop that rapport on the bandstand, there will be no limit to the tunes you will be able to learn by ear. It is a matter of doing it enough and having the confidence and ears to be willing to go for it on the bandstand.

By the way, I am not advocating that anyone get rid of any fake books. They are nice to have on the shelf (I have a ton) and refer to them when you are learning tunes. They sometimes have the definitive melodies and original changes (like the Dick Hyman books) or they sometimes have one version of a recording of a song (like the Real books) or they have the composer's approved, original chart (like the Sher books). Sometimes they have completely wrong changes and melodies—but you will notice that they are wrong when you check the chart with a definitive recording of the song.

Fake books can be valuable, but I don't see much value in taking them all (or any of them) to the gig—they weigh far too much, physically and psychologically.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

When I lived in NYC, I had a nice hotel gig for many years with Ted Rosenthal and Bob Kindred— 7 hours a night, 3 nights a week. We used the Table of Contents to several different fake books, but never used the fake books. We all knew lots of tunes to start with, but the accepted method of learning a new tune was for one of us who "knew" it to actually play it, and the other two guys would learn it on the bandstand. Sometimes for original tunes, we used charts, but then got rid of the charts quickly.

There is a lot of money to be made in NYC—not only the $30 gigs. But as a bass player, you have to: Be able to play hundreds and hundreds of tunes with no fake book, read very well, play extremely well in at least one or two styles, and be able to cover many other styles. Plus, it helps if you have a car, are reliable, willing to do any gig anytime anywhere with anyone, nerves of steel, etc.

By the time I got to your "etc" - I was about ready to add "superhuman"...

I believe you - I just don't think many people fit that bill - but having met a few Jazz pros who do - I would add : endless patience and a relentlessly positive outlook!!

 

[John Goldsby]

I might add that it is very, very hard to learn the first 20 tunes by memory. Once you really know 20, then it seems somewhat easier to learn a total of 50. Once you know 50, then 200 is just around the corner. Once you know 200 tunes, then you become one of the bass players who has a reputation of "knowing every tune" (even though you still don't know every tune .

By the time I got to your "etc" - I was about ready to add "superhuman"...

I believe you - I just don't think many people fit that bill - but having met a few Jazz pros who do - I would add : endless patience and a relentlessly positive outlook!!

I don't think it is really superhuman to know lots of tunes and be proficient in one or two styles. It is an achievable goal for most bass players. And even if we don't completely reach the goal, the fun is in the trying!

When I did work at the Hyatt in NYC, I took off quite a bit to do other gigs. I had a list of subs (I think you would call them "deps" in England). Since everyone traded gigs, and everyone was busy, it was often hard to find a bass player to sub for me. The main sub list I used had about 25 people who I would call regularly. Sometimes they were all busy (I am not kidding), so I would keep going down the list. And I don't mean down the list in ability—I just mean down the list to other players who I might not know as well or call as frequently (players who might not be friends). All of these bassists were players who could go in and do a 7 hour gig with no fake book. So—those bassists are out there, and they seem to work a lot.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I really meant the last part just before the etc. :

"...have a car, are reliable, willing to do any gig anytime anywhere with anyone, nerves of steel,..."

I was kind of joking and I do realise that there are many people who fit this bill - I meet them all the time as teachers, workshop leaders etc. But I think the fact that I try to play Jazz, just always gives me an idea of how far I have to go!!

At the moment, the gig anywhere, anytime with anybody looks most daunting to me!!

 

[John Goldsby]

Many of those guys didn't have cars . . .

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Now I'm picturing the New York Subway system jammed with guys schlepping basses around...

Link Removed

 

[John Goldsby]

I think I called that guy to sub for me once.

 

[Marc Piane]

Lots of great suggestions here from the usual suspects.

I have nothing to add except that the video clips you posted sound great! I sounds like you are definitely on the right track.

You have to take some of the suggestions you get here with a grain of salt. You are well on your way to being a pretty heavy player. Keep doing what you're doing.

 

[jgbass]

I might add that it is very, very hard to learn the first 20 tunes by memory. Once you really know 20, then it seems somewhat easier to learn a total of 50. Once you know 50, then 200 is just around the corner. Once you know 200 tunes, then you become one of the bass players who has a reputation of "knowing every tune" (even though you still don't know every tune .

.

That's a great way to look at this! I am going to copy this and put this somewhere as a reminder. And, I already know 20 tunes and am working on the next 50 this summer and well on my way. Sometimes I get one completely learned in a day too. It does get easier.

Now, if I could just consistently take the step to take that Real Book off the stand at a gig and just play, and not worry if I make a little mistake. That's where I kind of freeze up.

 

[emilio g]

Thanks again for all the great advice.

I just had another lesson with my teacher, Mike Richmond, and I had all kinds of questions for him about developing my ear. One of his big points was to be an active listener. He doesn't put music on unless he can really pay attention to it and try to understand what's happening. For instance, he said he doesn't listen to music much in the car or while he's cleaning the kitchen. He would rather put on headphones and spend an hour on the couch fully focused on it, then go about the rest of his day. (Speaking of which, he burned me a cd of Red Mitchell playing solo in his apartment for about 45 minutes. I'm trying to figure out how to upload it to my website or youtube account and share with everyone)


This is all proving to be very important information! Until auditions at school are over, the only time I have to play bass I need to put into learning classical music (Beethoven 5, the Eccles Sonata, Heldenleben...it's very challenging!) and my jazz practicing happens at work in the form of listening and transcription, which is a great thing.

 

[fdeck]

I really meant the last part just before the etc. :

"...have a car, are reliable, willing to do any gig anytime anywhere with anyone, nerves of steel,..."

I was kind of joking and I do realise that there are many people who fit this bill - I meet them all the time as teachers, workshop leaders etc. But I think the fact that I try to play Jazz, just always gives me an idea of how far I have to go!!

At the moment, the gig anywhere, anytime with anybody looks most daunting to me!!

In my view, once you reach a sufficient level of proficiency, then you just have to start doing it. I am certainly not a monster player, but at one point while I was in grad school, I decided to break away from the comfort of organized bands, and gave my card to a couple of local bandleaders. A few weeks later I got a call. Naturally I thought that I would get killed, but it just wasn't that bad.

Playing those gigs has taught me more about music and musicianship than I could ever have learned from teachers or practicing. When I moved to a new town, I already had the confidence to break into the scene.

In my case, I am reasonably insulated from gigs that are way over my head, because I think that I am sufficiently well known that bandleaders know my abilities or lack thereof. There are other players who get the high profile calls.

Jumping into the complete unknown is one thing I really enjoy about these gigs, because it is completely the opposite of my day job. Imagine calling a lawyer and saying: "We have a trial tomorrow and we need a lawyer. Can you show up? You don't need to prepare, we will have a book for you."