Is James Jamerson the best?

[Eublet]

Everyone is influenced by someone, so who influenced Jamerson? Shouldn't that person then be the best? What about the person before that?

And someone else said in this thread that no bass players played with feeling before Jamerson. That's crazy talk. Keep in mind the cultural and technological things that were happening right about the time Jamerson came along. Don't get me wrong. He was great and deserves his place, but he is also fortunate to have been at the right place at the right moment in time in a lot of ways. To suggest that music would be stuck and not have progressed if it weren't for Jamerson is a bit much IMO. Someone else would have come along....someone else always does. Might have made things go differently no doubt, but who's to say that some different path might not have been just as cool and exciting?

 

[Madcity Fats]

Everyone is influenced by someone, so who influenced Jamerson?

Lots of upright players, I'd assume. But on electric bass? I think it's safe to say Jamerson was way out in uncharted waters, especially considering the instrument wasn't around more than a few years before he picked it up.

But yes, everybody has influences, and "best" is all subjective.

 

[Geddy Claypool]

The "best" in the title was kind of a joke. My real question was is there someone that has influenced electric bass playing more? I don't get into the superlatives either because there are too many variables. I'm simply interested in thoughts on the vastness of his influence. One of my favorite recordings of his is "What's Going On". I know that's probably one that everyone says but what a cool bassline.

The three names I hear most are Jaco Pastorius, James Jamerson, and Geddy Lee.

 

[NickInMesa]

I believe he was very influencial and helped make the instrument evolve, because before that it was mostly about mostly playing the root note and safe arpeggios.

But he is not the best bass player, because techniques evolved and we all became braver and more experimental in our approach of the instrument, which he is in part responsible for.

I would probably put him in my top 50, certainly in a high position.

 

[Wasim]

Difficult to say which bassist is THE best, because it's a) subjective and b) based on different factors.

I'd always argue that Jamerson was the most important bass player ever and one of the most genius musicians ever.

 

[Fett]

Jamerson's main influence was Ray Brown from what I know.....

 

[Fett]

...and Carol Kaye has been debunked time & time again by documents & actual memories from people who were there with regards to her Motown claims. On the other hand she does deserve respect for the countless contributions she has actually made on record.

 

[Eublet]

Lots of upright players, I'd assume. But on electric bass? I think it's safe to say Jamerson was way out in uncharted waters, especially considering the instrument wasn't around more than a few years before he picked it up.

But yes, everybody has influences, and "best" is all subjective.

How was he out in uncharted waters? I don't really understand this. Jamerson was an awesome groove player, but so where a lot of upright players. So he did it on electric? Okay, that is to his credit. And of course he brought his own voice to the instrument, just like everyone does, but I think folks give him way more credit for "inventing" things that he didn't invent. As evidence, my next quote...

I believe he was very influencial and helped make the instrument evolve, because before that it was mostly about mostly playing the root note and safe arpeggios.

Not at all. James got his start on upright, playing jazz just like a thousand cats around him, and they played way more than roots and arpegios. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Jamerson took a lot of theory and knowledge that a bunch of other cats also had and applied it to electric. They brough jazz, soul and gospel to the table and out came Motown. But it's not like he was doing things musically that no one else had ever done when he played a non-chord tone. This is the kind of praise of Jamerson that I think is unfounded. Listen to some old James Brown. There's a lot of chromaticism in the bass playing, albeit on an upright. But it's super funky, rhythmic, and all the other things that Jamerson did on electric.

Jamerson helped define Motown and through that influence players for decades to come, and that's credit enough I think. I don't want it to seem like I'm slamming the guy cause I have a huge amount of respect for him. But when people make out like no one was playing bass before Jamerson, it just just feels like a slam to all the other players to me.

And like has been said here, he picked up the instrument (electric) when it was new, and many upright players didn't think it was worth anyone's time. He deserves a ton of credit for having the guts to do it anyway, and that really helps contribute to his lengendary status, which I readily think he deserves.

 

[pedro]

As my buddy JTE there is no best and as Jason points out nobody, Jamerson included, pops into existence without being influenced by those that came before. Most of my favorite bass players came from r&b/soul. Tommy Cogbill, Duck Dunn and the incredible Jerry Jemmott. But as great as these guys were Jamerson’s bass line seem unique in that they can be listened to and enjoyed as composition all on their own. Bass etudes, if you will. Youtube provides some selections of Jamersons bass solo accompanying the Temptations and others and the songs stand up perfectly. His lines don’t seem ‘riff-oriented’ but are melodic and yet pulse with groove.

My $.02.

 

[Wasim]

Jamerson's main influence was Ray Brown from what I know.....

Him and Paul Chambers.

There's an interview with Jamerson where he says who influenced him on upright but when he's asked how he played the way he did on electric he just said "That was automatic". He definitely had a unique style.

 

[switch18]

Very nice thread.

 

[Tom Howland]

From 1965-1975 The best in the USA.

After 1975 Jaco took it some where else.

 

[sploot]

yes

 

[Dave R]

I still am amazed how he can be so busy without totally stomping on the other voices.

And personally, no other bass lines can lift me out of a bad mood like his stuff. He played with a joy that is contagious.

Mambo4, I think you just defined his greatness. Well said!

 

[bassboysam]

If there was no Motown with Jamerson, there would have been no Beatles, no Rolling Stones, no Who.

The Beatles were an inspriration to just about everyone. Ozzy had said if he didn't see the Beatles getting girls like they did, he would not have gotten into music. Therefore, no Beatles, no Black Sabbath.

No Black Sabbath = no Metallica

The best electric bassist? At his time, yes.

The most influential? Most likely. If he didn't influence you directly, chances are he influenced your influences.

I don't agree. you can't say that if there was no Jamerson then all the rest would not have happened. there are just too many possibilities:

1. Someone other than Jamerson could have come along and done the same thing.

2. The bands you mentioned had a wide variety of influences, who's to say they would not have existed if it were not for Jamerson.

3. Maybe without Jamerson music would never have become commercialized and watered down like it is today....who knows


Personally I have listened to Jamerson and he has nver blown me away. His feel and touch are great but I always thought he was overrated. I would take Big Willie Dixon over Jamerson any day (I know he played an upright) but if i were recording an album I would hire Dixon over Jamerson.

 

[pedro]

I don't agree. you can't say that if there was no Jamerson then all the rest would not have happened. there are just too many possibilities:

1. Someone other than Jamerson could have come along and done the same thing.

2. The bands you mentioned had a wide variety of influences, who's to say they would not have existed if it were not for Jamerson.

3. Maybe without Jamerson music would never have become commercialized and watered down like it is today....who knows


Personally I have listened to Jamerson and he has nver blown me away. His feel and touch are great but I always thought he was overrated. I would take Big Willie Dixon over Jamerson any day (I know he played an upright) but if i were recording an album I would hire Dixon over Jamerson.

I know who Willie is but am not a blues fan. I was wondering if you would suggest a couple of tunes that he played on that you think best demonstrates his abilities as a bass player.

 

[bassboysam]

I know who Willie is but am not a blues fan. I was wondering if you would suggest a couple of tunes that he played on that you think best demonstrates his abilities as a bass player.

Just go to youtube and search for Willie Dixon, lots videos on there of his bass playing.

this is one of my favorites, although it may not necessarily be his "best" bassline.

 

[pedro]

Just go to youtube and search for Willie Dixon, lots videos on there of his bass playing.

this is one of my favorites, although it may not necessarily be his "best" bassline.

Thanks I'll check those out when I get home for lunch.

 

[pedro]

That's good stuff there bassboysam. Willie's got a ton of groove for sure and he wrote some classic blues tunes. No question that he inspired many a bass player. But just based on those two examples, and in terms of bass playing, I think Jamerson brought more rhythmic and melodic interest to his bass lines.

I know all these are well known Jamerson basslines but an example of what I mean:

 

[jloch84]

All Jamerson did was bring the concept of jazz type bass lines to recognition. He was an incredibly creative player and had one of the most distinguishable styles ever. But, to say he was the BEST EVER would not only be incredibly narrow minded and immature, but would also be a discredit to guys like Ray Brown, Ron Carter, Jimmy Garrison, Paul Chambers, Jimmy Blanton, Charles Mingus, etc.

Just because JJ played a more accessible style of music doesn't make him any better than the next guy. If Jamerson didn't do what he did as far as "changing the role" of the instrument, someone else would have.

Not trying to knock him, just the people who say he was the best ever, as if they've been around forever.

That being said, Carol Kaye is probably the most underrated and under appreciated bass player I've ever heard of.