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Is James Jamerson the best?

#21
Alembicplyr said:
Well, If you're gonna say Jamerson, another uncredited one is Carol Kaye, her playing was on a lot of demos that were originally sent to motown.
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That's true, but her playing didn't define the whole genre the way that his did. He was given free rein on shaping the songs, where I think she was more supportive behind the songs. Producers didn't wait for her to set the feel of the song as much as they did for Jamerson.
 
#22
Of course, I will avoid putting the controversial "best" tag on any bassists, however, I believe three stand out for their particular contributions- Jammerson, Jaco, and Larry Graham.
Those three change the way the bass and bass playing were viewed.

When Jammerson came along, the electric bass was still a relatively new instrument, and popular music was still transitioning from big band (double bass and horns) to electric rock and roll and r&b. Jammerson's playing open eyes to the possibilities the electric bass had beyond walking jazz lines and thumping root notes.

Later, Jaco did the same thing by bringing the bass to the forefront and showing that it was not confined to the rhythm
section.

Larry's slapping, or "thumping and plucking", as he calls it, opened a new world of sound options for the bass player.

While other players' talents may meet or exceed these, their innovation and influence are what put them at the top of many people's "best" lists.
 
#23
gweimer said:
Well, I disagree that without Jamerson, there would be no Beatles or Stones. ... To say that they listened to the same music might be better stated, but even then I have to think that Jamerson's jazz roots are not where the Beatles and Stones started.
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Paul has publicly disagreed with you on this many times, stating that Jamerson was a huge influence. Paul also belongs in any pantheon of great, influential bassist, having taught us everything about clean, melodic pop bass playing. Bill was an able performer in a band that had no original sound, but capitalized very well on every new style in the past 40 years. He was not so much innovative as versatile.
 
#24
Alembicplyr said:
...Carol Kaye, her playing was on a lot of demos that were originally sent to motown.
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What is your source for this "fact"?

FWIW, I knew her (and her "partner" Spider Webb) back in the early 70's . . . and this is the 1st time that I've heard of her playing on "a lot of demos that were originally sent to motown" . . .
 
#28
JohnnyPustular said:
Paul has publicly disagreed with you on this many times, stating that Jamerson was a huge influence. Paul also belongs in any pantheon of great, influential bassist, having taught us everything about clean, melodic pop bass playing. Bill was an able performer in a band that had no original sound, but capitalized very well on every new style in the past 40 years. He was not so much innovative as versatile.
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I'm not saying that Jamerson wasn't a big influence on them. I'm just saying that The Beatles and Stones would have been there anyway, since their journeys began a little before Jamerson was there at Motown.
 
#30
deaf pea said:
What is your source for this "fact"?

FWIW, I knew her (and her "partner" Spider Webb) back in the early 70's . . . and this is the 1st time that I've heard of her playing on "a lot of demos that were originally sent to motown" . . .
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Ok, since you ask,

http://www.carolkaye.com/www/library/faq.htm

Although I "do not know her",

Faq 6, Faq 6a and Faq 29. I'll see If I can also find the video interview I recall this.

Of course, if i'm wrong again, call me on it.

Besides that, she does list in some hits on her site as well (Some she contributed, although Jamerson was the final):

Get Ready, I Second That Emotion - Temptations

I Can't Help Myself, Bernadette etc. - 4 Tops

Love Child, Baby Love, Stop In The Name Of Love, Back In My Arms Again, You Can't Hurry Love, My World Is Empty Without You, Reflections, Love Is Here And Now You're Gone, You're All I Need To Get By etc. - Supremes

If I Could Build My Whole World Around You, Ain't Nothin' But The Real Thing - Marvin Gaye & Tami Terrell (Steiner's studio - LA)

Someday We'll Be together Again, Ain't No Mountain High Enough - Diana Ross

I Was Made To Love Her - Stevie Wonder
 
#31
RexNFX79 said:
Jamerson is one of my all time favorite bass players but I've been on a real Jamerson kick lately I've been reading about him a lot and I just watched that documentary on the Funk Brothers again this week. I was curious as to what everyone else thought about this question. Is James Jamerson the most influential electric bassist of all time? I know that there are a ton of great bassists out there and I appreciate them all but I've been thinking that if you get down to brass taxes, Jamerson was a real pioneer of the electric bass. I think that just about everything that has come since has built on his style. Any thoughts? Just interested to hear what others think of this.
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I don't like to use words like 'best' about musicians... but i'd say he was maybe THE most significant electric bass player, in terms of developing the harmonic & rhythmic language that bass players now use as second nature

lots of guys took it further, but who had as profound an effect on the way bass sounded than Jamerson? not just in pop & R&B but right into mainstream rock

Jaco? A genius, completely... but do you hear Jaco's influence much in bass playing other than jazz & fusion type styles? not as much... no reflection on Jaco - for my money he's the greatest - just that his style was maybe just a bit too complex and specialised to be assimilated by many other bass players
 
#32
James was a jazz bassist playing upright in jazz clubs in Detroit all night long then grabbing his P-bass and heading to the Motown studio all day long. I'm sure he felt the Motown tunes had very simple changes that allowed him lots of time and opportunity to mix it up and play the grooves and lines he did.
Those men were lucky enough to be at that right place, Detroit, at that right time, 1960's, and have someone push the record button.
 
#35
Alembicplyr said:
Ok, since you ask,

http://www.carolkaye.com/www/library/faq.htm

Although I "do not know her",

Faq 6, Faq 6a and Faq 29. I'll see If I can also find the video interview I recall this.

Of course, if i'm wrong again, call me on it...
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Oh . . . OK . . . SHE said that "her playing was on a lot of demos that were originally sent to motown."

:ninja: :rollno: :ninja: :rollno: :ninja: :rollno: :ninja: :rollno: :ninja: :rollno: :ninja: :rollno: :ninja: :rollno: :ninja: :rollno:

Alembicplyr said:
...Besides that, she does list in some hits on her site as well (Some she contributed, although Jamerson was the final):

Get Ready, I Second That Emotion - Temptations

I Can't Help Myself, Bernadette etc. - 4 Tops

Love Child, Baby Love, Stop In The Name Of Love, Back In My Arms Again, You Can't Hurry Love, My World Is Empty Without You, Reflections, Love Is Here And Now You're Gone, You're All I Need To Get By etc. - Supremes

If I Could Build My Whole World Around You, Ain't Nothin' But The Real Thing - Marvin Gaye & Tami Terrell (Steiner's studio - LA)

Someday We'll Be together Again, Ain't No Mountain High Enough - Diana Ross

I Was Made To Love Her - Stevie Wonder
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Get Ready - Temptations
I Can't Help Myself - 4 Tops
Bernadette - 4 Tops
Love Child - Diana Ross and the Supremes
Baby Love - the Supremes
Stop In The Name Of Love - Diana Ross and the Supremes
Back In My Arms Again - Supremes or Diana Ross or Diana Ross and the Supremes
You Can't Hurry Love - Diana Ross and the Supremes
My World Is Empty Without You - Diana Ross and the Supremes
Reflections - Diana Ross and the Supremes
Love Is Here And Now You're Gone - Supremes
Ain't No Mountain High Enough - Diana Ross or Diana Ross and the Supremes
Someday We'll Be together Again - Diana Ross
Ain't Nothin' But The Real Thing - Marvin Gaye & Tami Terrell
I Was Made To Love Her - Stevie Wonder
for ALL of these the "original hit" was played by JJ

:cool:

I Second That Emotion - the "original hit" was by Smokey Robinson & The Miracles . . . played by JJ
You're All I Need To Get By - the "original hit" was by the Temptations . . . and played by JJ

:cool:

If I Could Build My Whole World Around You - Marvin Gaye & Tami Terrell
Someday We'll Be together Again - Diana Ross
For these 2 I don't really know . . .
 
#36
reedo35 said:
Barney Miller, M*A*S*H and over half of the other TV Shows from the 60's and 70's.
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Barney Miller was actually Chuck Berghofer.

Although she did play bass on:

M*A*S*H
Mission Impossible
Ironside
Kojak
Hawaii 5-O
Bill Cosby Show (the first one)
Room 222
Streets of San Fransico
Brady Bunch
Cannon
McCloud
Hogan's Heros
Addams Family
Soap
FBI
It Takes a Thief
Wonder Woman
Alice
Peyton Place
Love Boat
Get Smart
Green Acres
Wild Wild West
Lost in Space
Lucy
Mannix
Stalag 17
 
#37
probably the best at making a song groove in a traditional supporting role. I love the way he compliments a song with his bass lines. Just amazing. IMHO, Meshell N'degeocello is the closest thing we have today to him. Not that she sounds like him, not at all. But she has a unique way of supporting a song and shining from the shadows.

I have seen her play in a supporting role at Red Hot and Riot (where she blew me away with her playing) and a few others shows (plus her Jazz band tour, awesome also) and she is an absolute monster when just laying down a groove.

Also, she appears to get nastier and nastier as the show goes on, just relentlessly funky grooves that come from the soul. I think that what she and Jamerson have comes from within. I am not sure that type of feel can be taught, but I could be wrong. My .02.
 
#38
He was the first guy to play with any feeling.
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I disagree, only slightly, with that comment. My "hero" is Joe Osborn, who was a contemporary of Jamerson and also played with great feeling, and great melodic taste.

Nothing away from Jamerson--he clearly shaped electric bass playing. Just adding that Joe did a lot of shaping, too.

If you measure success or influence by the number of hit records they played on, those two guys are probably well above all others. And Jamerson probably above Osborn.
 
#39
Dave R said:
I disagree, only slightly, with that comment. My "hero" is Joe Osborn, who was a contemporary of Jamerson and also played with great feeling, and great melodic taste.

Nothing away from Jamerson--he clearly shaped electric bass playing. Just adding that Joe did a lot of shaping, too.

If you measure success or influence by the number of hit records they played on, those two guys are probably well above all others. And Jamerson probably above Osborn.
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even his clip on the Lakland website is beautiful and full of feeling. also, his style is his own.
 
#40
I think Jamerson, Osborn, and CK , along with Duck Dunn all deserve respect from us for their huge and pioneering contributions to the Bass Guitar in its formative years.

But Jamerson stands out to me for his level of improvisational virtuosity, placed so purely in the service of groove and the song. I still am amazed how he can be so busy without totally stomping on the other voices.

And personally, no other bass lines can lift me out of a bad mood like his stuff. He played with a joy that is contagious.
 

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