Is music theory important?

[Whousedtoplay]

This discussion is futile; therefore, here is my argument for the sake of argument.

We buy a lot of tools, gadgets made in China.
Let's say, I bought a new "gadget", but the instructions came in the Chinese characters.
I don't speak/read Chinese. I try to find the instructions in English.
For some reason, I could not find the instructions in English.

I'm trying to figure out on my own by using the "push-any-buttons-in-any-combinations" method.

Let's say, I could not figure out; therefore, I asked my neighbor for help. He said, "No problem", and explained to me how to use that gadget.

I've started using the new gadget without knowing Chinese.

Now, I can clearly declare that I was able to learn how to use my new gadget without learning Chinese.

 

[Ric5]

Hypothetically, if I wanted to be the next big spunky rockstar, would studying music be important? Even if I had a heartfelt passion for playing bass or guitar or whatever, is it really important to know how many beats a quaver goes for? To me, theory isn't what music is about. Music is about playing something that sounds good (to me atleast) and feeling a connection to your instrument or words beyond logic or reason.
What do you think?

Remember stoking up on music cannot susbtitute for talent, also lack of basic theory knowledge can hold you back.

 

[lfmn16]

Theory is what allowed classical composers through history to compose for huge ensembles and choirs effectively and allowed them to be productive with high output where nothing is ever "wrong"although inspiration isn't required to complete a piece of music.

Arguably theory came before music since, based on history, human ability to invent musical ideas was terribly lacking many centuries ago and theory was both a safeguard to writing tonally pleasing music and also a set of mathematical rules that brilliant composers could work with to invent new styles of music.

We're only this good at playing by ear these days because of history...

This could only be written by someone who doesn't know any theory. Theory explains music, it could not have come before music.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

To me that's like asking if time would exist without clocks. Or if a tree falling in the woods makes sound if no one is there to hear it.

My question - from my college Philosophy course - was only for the sake of argument.

Again, the thread is about one thing (that's what I hear):

"I am illiterate. Should I learn to read and write or be illiterate?
I know in the past (thousands of years ago), there were a lot of smart people who could not read and write. I want to follow their example."

 

[dkelley]

This could only be written by someone who doesn't know any theory. Theory explains music, it could not have come before music.

Well I didn't mean it that literally LoL... Sorry for confusion.

I have two degrees in music.

I learned that stuff I summarized in only first year university. Music obviously came first... But theory (where theory are the true mathematical rules and relationships for choosing the next note to play) is what helped musicians compose music successfully and also provided the rules that composers manipulated, and sometimes "shockingly" even disregarded, or at least cheated, to create new chords, progressions, and transpositions.

Which is the stuff we do every day playing bass.

I remember being stunned by the incredible things I was being taught in university music, and that concept I just pointed out seemed really relevant here.

Maybe it was sort of a strange thing to write, but as I said earlier I was brought up reading music before I could read letters and words so basic music notation and concepts, which are NOT theory, so that is my first nature. That isn't really theory though... But it notation and interpretation and chords and standard ways to transition from one key to another are fundamental to reading and writing music for sure and working with other musicians on complex music.

However, when I actually learned theory at basic up to extremely advanced levels for my first degree I learned how to communicate with musicians even more easily and composer and arrange parts etc well.

When i then expanded to jazz and native world music studies and theory for my second degree... That's when my creative mind was opened up and new concepts of music started popping into my head.

Theory is amazing... I learned the most complex rules and concepts and then how to manipulate those rules to be even more outside the box.

PS... typing on phone sorry lol

 

[Fergie Fulton]

This could only be written by someone who doesn't know any theory. Theory explains music, it could not have come before music.

Well one could say that the theory has always been there, but musicians did not recognise it to be relevant to the music of the time.
A lot of composer expanded a theoritical idea then created music from it.
The ability to write boogie woogie on the piano was there in theory for....say Beethovan but he did not recognise its worth.
So the theory does exist it is just we have no way to recognise it till it has a practical use....this is why it is art, because the worth of music is in the eye of the beholder not the theory behind it.

 

[dkelley]

Well one could say that the theory has always been there, but musicians did not recognise it to be relevant to the music of the time.
A lot of composer expanded a theoritical idea then created music from it.
The ability to write boogie woogie on the piano was there in theory for....say Beethovan but he did not recognise its worth.
So the theory does exist it is just we have no way to recognise it till it has a practical use....this is why it is art, because the worth of music is in the eye of the beholder not the theory behind it.

That's good man! I like your way of looking at things

 

[Clef_de_fa]

That's good man! I like your way of looking at things

Yep that guy is something ! One of the few reasons I still hang out on this forum

 

[BawanaRik]

I "dealt" with this by leaving the situation.

Good move. Good advice.

 

[faulknersj]

This discussion is futile; therefore, here is my argument for the sake of argument.

We buy a lot of tools, gadgets made in China.
Let's say, I bought a new "gadget", but the instructions came in the Chinese characters.
I don't speak/read Chinese. I try to find the instructions in English.
For some reason, I could not find the instructions in English.

I'm trying to figure out on my own by using the "push-any-buttons-in-any-combinations" method.

Let's say, I could not figure out; therefore, I asked my neighbor for help. He said, "No problem", and explained to me how to use that gadget.

I've started using the new gadget without knowing Chinese.

Now, I can clearly declare that I was able to learn how to use my new gadget without learning Chinese.

Clever anology. Being fluent in the language of music, it's many styles, approaches, genres, feels, etc...is hardly on par with figuring out how to use a gadget without an instruction manual. Sure..u can play a bass without 'an instruction manual' and if u play a form of music like rock, u will be just fine. But...rock culture doesn't take the endeavor of musical fluency (theory, which is a bad term, its musical knowledge..not so theoretical imo) seriously at all...and cats that come from backgrounds that do...they run circles around rock players from what I've seen. Less...is often just that...less....and I have yet to meet anyone who knows more, wish they knew less.

 

[Russell L]

I dunno why it's so hard to understand that theory is helpful, and why so many who don't know it argue against knowing it.

 

[faulknersj]

I dunno why it's so hard to understand that theory is helpful, and why so many who don't know it argue against knowing it.

^This

 

[jblmusic1994]

This discussion is futile; therefore, here is my argument for the sake of argument.

We buy a lot of tools, gadgets made in China.
Let's say, I bought a new "gadget", but the instructions came in the Chinese characters.
I don't speak/read Chinese. I try to find the instructions in English.
For some reason, I could not find the instructions in English.

I'm trying to figure out on my own by using the "push-any-buttons-in-any-combinations" method.

Let's say, I could not figure out; therefore, I asked my neighbor for help. He said, "No problem", and explained to me how to use that gadget.

I've started using the new gadget without knowing Chinese.

Now, I can clearly declare that I was able to learn how to use my new gadget without learning Chinese.

And with learning Chinese, you will be able to construct any gadget that is limited to only Chinese instructions.

 

[stratovani]

This is strictly my opinion, and I'll be the first one to admit that I'm not nearly as knowledgeable in music theory as some of the members here. But having said that, I do think some knowledge of music theory is quite helpful. I don't think you really need to know why an AmF#13sus28 can't be played over a CbB#dim13, but I do think you need to know how to build a simple triad, how a chord works in a song, what w-w-h-w-w-w-w means, what 4/4 time is, what a measure is, what a refrain, verse, bridge, and chorus is, and so on. It can only help to know at least the basics, but I think the most daunting part is applying it on the fly. That's probably the hardest thing for most of us here.

 

[jblmusic1994]

This is strictly my opinion, and I'll be the first one to admit that I'm not nearly as knowledgeable in music theory as some of the members here. But having said that, I do think some knowledge of music theory is quite helpful. I don't think you really need to know why an AmF#13sus28 can't be played over a CbB#dim13, but I do think you need to know how to build a simple triad, how a chord works in a song, what w-w-h-w-w-w-w means, what 4/4 time is, what a measure is, what a refrain, verse, bridge, and chorus is, and so on. It can only help to know at least the basics, but I think the most daunting part is applying it on the fly. That's probably the hardest thing for most of us here.

Realizing the flaws of those made up chords is a nice place to start

 

[stratovani]

Realizing the flaws of those made up chords is a nice place to start

Yeah, I know they don't exist, I was just trying to make a point. No harm done.

 

[lfmn16]

This discussion is futile; therefore, here is my argument for the sake of argument.

We buy a lot of tools, gadgets made in China.
Let's say, I bought a new "gadget", but the instructions came in the Chinese characters.
I don't speak/read Chinese. I try to find the instructions in English.
For some reason, I could not find the instructions in English.

I'm trying to figure out on my own by using the "push-any-buttons-in-any-combinations" method.

Let's say, I could not figure out; therefore, I asked my neighbor for help. He said, "No problem", and explained to me how to use that gadget.

I've started using the new gadget without knowing Chinese.

Now, I can clearly declare that I was able to learn how to use my new gadget without learning Chinese.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

Learn theory, then your not dependent on a bunch of other knuckleheads, most of who don't know theory either.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

This discussion is futile; therefore, here is my argument for the sake of argument.

We buy a lot of tools, gadgets made in China.
Let's say, I bought a new "gadget", but the instructions came in the Chinese characters.
I don't speak/read Chinese. I try to find the instructions in English.
For some reason, I could not find the instructions in English.

I'm trying to figure out on my own by using the "push-any-buttons-in-any-combinations" method.

Let's say, I could not figure out; therefore, I asked my neighbor for help. He said, "No problem", and explained to me how to use that gadget.

I've started using the new gadget without knowing Chinese.

Now, I can clearly declare that I was able to learn how to use my new gadget without learning Chinese.

And you will realize the full potential of the gadget once you can read the instruction ... it probably can do stuff that you aren't aware because you don,t understand

 

[lwknives]

This discussion is futile; therefore, here is my argument for the sake of argument.

We buy a lot of tools, gadgets made in China.
Let's say, I bought a new "gadget", but the instructions came in the Chinese characters.
I don't speak/read Chinese. I try to find the instructions in English.
For some reason, I could not find the instructions in English.

I'm trying to figure out on my own by using the "push-any-buttons-in-any-combinations" method.

Let's say, I could not figure out; therefore, I asked my neighbor for help. He said, "No problem", and explained to me how to use that gadget.

I've started using the new gadget without knowing Chinese.

Now, I can clearly declare that I was able to learn how to use my new gadget without learning Chinese.

I like this analogy a lot.

You would have been able to learn your gadget much quicker if you had known Chinese, much in the same way as you can learn more songs quicker if you know theory.
Obviously, knowing Chinese would have made your experience with the gadget a better one! just like theory.

So you should go learn Chinese right now! When you are done learning Chinese you should learn theory! After that you can use your gadget and play your bass!

 

[BassChuck]

I'm still waiting for the post that says, " I learned music theory and it ruined my playing, caused people to not hire me and kept me from expanding my musical output. I had to spend years in therapy to remove the knowledge from my mind. Only in the last month have I been able to gig. Happily I found a band of other ex-theory musicians. We play everything in both keys, 'A' and the other key. I now have found complete musical bliss. Just yesterday I played one note all day long. I don't know what that note was, but I used my 3rd finger on the almost biggest string."