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Is music theory important?

#141
If I'd known someone would post that, I would divest myself completely from my post. I take the position that education can never hurt. If someone refuses education because it is too labor-intensive, then they get the spoils. If that's what Rand is about, then so be it. But I don't get the sense that this was Rand's focus; entirely, anyway.

I'm more of the Phil Lesh school. Know it, but screw with everyone because you can; see where it leads musically.
 
#146
I've always told people that music theory is simply a way for people to talk about how music sounds. There isn't really any magic to it. It's not a magic bean that affects your playing, it helps you communicate the sounds you are hearing.
That having been said, if you are telling people that music is your life and you find yourself playing in B# a lot, maybe you should do yourself and your band mates a favor and study up a little. If music really is something that you can't do without, learning a little or a lot of theory can only help- IMHO. I did, and it seemed to work, 38 years playing and I'm working as much as I have time for.
Cheers.
 
#148
Being a musician first, then a music teacher....I must share my experience. As a beginning bassist, several years ago, at the age of 15, I was stuck on "riding the root notes" of whatever song we were playing. As soon as I started learning music theory my eyes were opened to the possibilities of what I could play. Now, as a music teacher, my students definitely notice how each play within their section. When asked why some students exceed while others don't...my answer is determination and dedication to practice, study (theory) and listening to many genres of music (immersion).
As a 54 year-old bassist (and teacher) I certainly DO "practice what I preach"...continually reading about theory, practicing, watching instructional videos and immersion into many styles/genres of music. As a result, I have become a better musician. If you want to get better, hard work is the only way to accomplish it.
Do I use everything, theory/scales/multiple genres, I've learned while playing in my band? No, not every night, but I'm much more comfortable on stage due to the amount of work I've put into playing the bass.
 
#150
If music is an artful sonic expression than (at least basic) music theory is a road map.

Can one express themselves without theory? Yes. Does an understanding of music theory help to know what notes you can use while doing it? I think yes
 
#151
It seems to me that every musician has to know some theory otherwise he wouldn't be able to play. Even if it was not formal theory or advanced theory most musicians know that a minor chord has a flatted third and most know a I IV V progression... but since I have been digging more into theory over the past few months after playing for over 35 years (with a 14 year break in between but active again over the last 14) I have seen my playing improve dramatically. My technique is still hampered by my stiff fingers ;) but my playing is becoming more fluid and intuitive because I understand where I am going and why.

I think Jimmy's post at the start of this thread says it all.
 
#152
Clef_de_fa said:
You don't need to know how to read to understand/speak English or any other languages but you're limited to what you hear and you miss out on a lot of information.

You learn a lot of stuff just from reading right ? It is the same with music ... there is a lot of stuff that can't be taught if you can't have it written in front of you.

Also ... you really want to pursue the cliché that Rock music are dumb and know nothing and don't want to know it ?
Click to expand...

How many film stars have never studied acting?
How many NY Times Best selling authors have never studied language and composition?
In my opinion, thinking that you will become the next big rock star without learning the art is like thinking that you will buy a lottery ticket and get rich.
 
#153
Whousedtoplay said:
You are just starting out, but as a newbie, you know so much about music.
Where can I listen to your music?
Click to expand...

i never claimed to know "so much about music" i merely stated some information i gleaned from a source (www.studybass.com) which had been recommended to me by what i consider to be a reliable source (other members of this website). therefore i consider that information to be of good merit. as you picked up i noted that i am a newbie. if you disagree that's fair enough.
 
#154
Redthirteen said:
im just starting out and at first i had the mindset that i wanted to create my music and my style in my own way and not be bound by convention; i still do. with that being said, i read something interesting on www.studybass.com (great site), Andrew Pouska wrote this:

"A theory is not truth. A theory is an attempt at explaining something. Music theory attempts to explain what music is doing and why it is pleasing to hear.

For centuries people just like you and me have been singing, playing instruments and creating music. Over time, certain good-sounding musical events kept occurring again and again. After a while people started giving those musical events names. Those named events slowly turned into an accepted language for describing music.

In general, music theory tries to explain:

Rhythm — when and for how long musical events happen
Harmony — how notes are combined (keys, chords and chord progressions)
Melody — groups of notes played one after another
An important thing to remember is music theory was born out of music, not the other way around. Music created the theory."

Music Theory is NOT a set of rules and constraints... its merely a load of bullet points that you MAY find useful. While i (in my newbie opinion) disagree that learning theory is absolutely essential, i do believe it has its usefulness, as much or as little as you like. This opinion is based solely on the information I read on StudyBass. Check out the site, its awesome.
Click to expand...

To this I'd like to offer the scientific definition of what a theory is, as I believe Music Theory to be a theory in the scientific sense.:



"What is a Scientific Theory?

Kim Ann Zimmerman, LiveScience Contributor | July 10, 2012 02:07am ET

A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. If enough evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, it moves to the next step—known as a theory—in the scientific method and becomes accepted as a valid explanation of a phenomenon."

In my opinion, this is the definition of what music theory is. Music Theory was developed through the Scientific Method. The article continues:

"When used in non-scientific context, the word “theory” implies that something is unproven or speculative. As used in science, however, a theory is an explanation or model based on observation, experimentation, and reasoning, especially one that has been tested and confirmed as a general principle helping to explain and predict natural phenomena.

Any scientific theory must be based on a careful and rational examination of the facts. In the scientific method, there is a clear distinction between facts, which can be observed and/or measured, and theories, which are scientists’ explanations and interpretations of the facts. Scientists can have various interpretations of the outcomes of experiments and observations, but the facts, which are the cornerstone of the scientific method, do not change."

You can read the article for yourself:
http://www.livescience.com/21491-what-is-a-scientific-theory-definition-of-theory.html
 
#155
Redthirteen said:
i never claimed to know "so much about music" i merely stated some information i gleaned from a source (www.studybass.com) which had been recommended to me by what i consider to be a reliable source (other members of this website). therefore i consider that information to be of good merit. as you picked up i noted that i am a newbie. if you disagree that's fair enough.
Click to expand...

Presentation is everything. Go back and read how you presented said information. That's why you're getting the responses you are.
 
#157
Redthirteen said:
i never claimed to know "so much about music"
Click to expand...

Therefore, the smartest thing would be listen and learn.

Redthirteen said:
i merely stated some information i gleaned from a source (www.studybass.com) which had been recommended to me by what i consider to be a reliable source (other members of this website).
Click to expand...

Those marketing people have been promoting and selling the Baby Einstein toys, but still no new Einsteins.
What's more, with all those computers, videos, special toys, iphones, etc..., the average educational level of students is going down. Why?


In short, if you want to be a kardashian when you grow up, don't learn music theory.

If you want to play golf, don't learn music theory.
If somebody left you an old bass guitar and you don't know what to do with it, don't learn music theory.

I'm not a teacher/educator; therefore, my answers are not very diplomatic.

Knowing music theory helps even un-gifted and un-talented musicians like me to be around good musicians without looking "stupid" (it still happens), create some mediocre compositions, and even participate in the music theory discussions at TB.

For talented musicians, music theory/harmony/etc... is like a rocket buster that catapults them into a completely new orbit, where their talents can really blossom.

My advice. (Samo-samo)

Get a (free) music production software.
Get an old (from a pawn shop) Yamaha PSR keyboard.
Get some (easy) music theory book for the beginning piano players.

Divide your precious time into three sections:

N.B. LEARNING IS A LIFE TIME JOURNEY. DON'T RUSH.

1. Learn how to program the music software. (At the beginning only)
2. Learn harmony/chords on the keyboard (Aural environment). It is very important to hear the chords/harmony.
3. Transfer that learned music theory knowledge on the bass guitar. Don't get any bass tutorials first. Try to use your brain power and play those notes/scales/chords on the bass fretboard.

When you and your brain are comfortable about the bass fretboard, then get bass guitar books and start learning specifics.

Within a few months, you should be able to know about the chords, aurally discern them, play scales and various chords on the bass.

Any PSR keyboard or music production software has some kind of metronome or some other timing device.
Music software will help to properly "calibrate" the note's length.
Music software will help you to properly "calibrate" tuplets -
"any rhythm that involves dividing the beat into a different number of equal subdivisions from that usually permitted by the time-signature."

Start playing those notes, scales, tuplets, or any rhythmic patterns with the metronome or other timing devices.


What's more, with the help of the music production software, you'll be able to start recording your own musical thoughts and ideas.

The software will help you with music notation.
It's important to know how to communicate your musical ideas to other musicians, and also knowing standard music notation would allow you to read other musicians' thoughts via note sheets.

Also, knowing how to program sequencer would help you to practice/exercise "cover" tunes as well.
You can even try to program some polyrhythmic stuff.


It's just a beginning, don't rush and be patient.
 
#158
It would probably be best to read my post in the form of an answer to what the OP asked (assuming that he/she has not been playing very long, like me). I presumed the OP wanted to hear from all and everyone, including those at the beginning of their musical journey. Perhaps this was wrong for me to do. Also, I like to engage in conversation and I do have opinions. I also believe that learning is a two way interaction, I ask questions and I offer my ideas. I personally don't learn just by having information placed before me, I need to interact and converse in order to take on information. I do however realise that not everyone shares that mindset and for that I apologise.

And as I said before, this forum is obviously not one where my posts are relevant. Therefore I'm taking my leave.
 
#159
Itzayana said:
How many film stars have never studied acting?
How many NY Times Best selling authors have never studied language and composition?
In my opinion, thinking that you will become the next big rock star without learning the art is like thinking that you will buy a lottery ticket and get rich.
Click to expand...

Hum ... putting Jim Carey in Mcbeth would kind of stupid move... like many other "actor" they don,t have what it takes to make something different than their little niche. I don't think they would have the subtility and just the plain hability to do any justice to it.

And well ... writters also make things for entertainment, they don't try to make something difficult, they shoot at the lowest common denominator to have the slightless chance of making money. If you look up written English from 200 years old, it is really something different than what it is now.

same thing in music. you have rock star that where at the right place at the right time and doesn't give a f*** about playing the dumbest thing as long as people like it and pay big buck for it. On the other hand you have people in the shadows that make and compose unbelivable stuff ... it is just too hard for common people.

also there seem to be some kind of mentality of everything slightly complex is showing off, ego trip, unmusical, pointless etc etc etc. It is like devolution ... like knowledge and hability are still link to higher class and since they are more "modest" people they want more "modest" entertainment.
 
#160
Redthirteen said:
Therefore I'm taking my leave.
Click to expand...

Quincy Jones taped a simple sign on the entrance: "Check Your Ego At The Door".

Again, maybe some teachers/educators could tell you, "Wow you are so smart", but musicians - they play, not talk too much; therefore, yes I'd rather see you go practicing and learning your bass, music theory, harmony, composition, etc...
I (or my ego) used to get offended quite easily; therefore, nothing new under the sun, especially in the music world boiling with overheated egos.

Those "offended" emotions forced me to learn more and try to be a better musician.

I even wrote a mediocre melody with harmony after one that kind of "insult".

Whatever you do, just remember one thing - be yourself and face the consequences of it.
 

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