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Is music theory important?

#401
taurus1 said:
I was listening to an interview last night with jazz great Harold Mabern. the guy's played with everybody and he has some amazing stories.
he was talking about his time playing with Wes Montgomery and the fact that Montgomery's music was so complex, yet he couldn't read or write music.
same with Django Reinhardt, could read or write anything including music.
we can discuss the merits of theory until the end of time but the bottom line is, you don't need it to communicate, or become one of the most influential musicians of all time.
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I am sorry I myself did miss Taurus1's point. I thought he was the OP but, I am still with the point that yes one can be one of the greats without learning theory by book learning or in a academic setting, yes you can. But at the same time, especially in jazz (your example) whether Wes or D'jango could not read or write out music, they were still by ear maybe following the rules of theory and therefore in a way still using it and thus communicating with it still. Now in other genes of music like some modern forms, theory may not be used or even abandoned but some communication will be used. But as for greatness :hmm: not always :hmm:

I missed the point again :scowl: Oh well, he left anyway
 
#402
I'm a self-taught player, without a lot of music theory. I feel like I need the knowledge now, since I want to play more jazz. Really, I love jazz, and want to be able to hear the other players and know what they're doing on more than an intuitive level. I have a great ear. If I need to finish a chord for the melody using my bass part, I want to know what chord I'm creating - and what possibilities are out there for augmentation and substitution. I know where "do" is, but I sometimes don't understand what in the world everyone else is doing to that poor chord.

I know just enough to know it will assist me in getting where I want to be as a musician.
 
#403
taurus1 said:
Sonny Sharrock, look him up.
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He was one of the first guitarist in free jazz movement so sure at that time it was an uncharted territory but now this is well documented. Since then I don't think there is any new breaking thing coming out, not really uncharted territory in music.

The only other guy I see going somewhere few did is John Cage
 
#404
Another analogy: I am also an amateur astronomer. I used to go out with my telescope and just start looking around with whatever eyepiece. But when I studied up on optical design and what's in the sky and how things move across the sky, wow, what a difference in my experience out there. Not to mention studying what those things actually ARE that I'm seeing. It never ever took away from the experience, but only added to it.
 
#405
Wow...
I am so completely saddened whenever I read this type of post.

Do I have to study to be good at something...
Do I have to practice...

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Every great comedian has studied comedy.
Every great painter has studied art.
Every great bass player has studied music.
Every great performer has studied other performers.

There is no, "but If I just really want to be good doesn't that make me good."

"When you earnestly believe you can compensate for a lack of skill by doubling your efforts there's no end to what you can't do." - Despair Inc.
 
#410
I think theory is good for sure. If you care to learn it, do, i don't see how it can hinder you. But it is BS to say that anyone who doesn't learn theory is gonna be stuck in a three chords rut. Maybe someone who isn't adventurous or doesn't have an ear. It's not like you cant discover chords or chords progression without theory you know....its all there on the fretboard for you to discover. Eventually, theory or not, you will know what works with what and what sounds good with what. I don't know any theory. I mean, i know stuff but not by name. I guess i DO know theory technically but i cant explain any of it i just know what works together (i don't even know notes beyond the open strings, i never studied chord charts or anything of the like...but i DID pick up endless amount of song by ear, both on bass and guitar).

Definitely if you want to properly jam learning theory is a good thing, I can jam but if someone is switching keys left and right all the time, well...i probably can't follow without messing up a little here and there until i figure out what just happened (whereas with theory someone could tell me the key switch) but it is not necessary to write and compose music (personally i find jamming overrated...but then again my musical interests don't have much to do with improv and jamming) and I am fairly certain there's been a good amount of people who made millions in music who knew no or little theory. And i don't mean just ****** bands. Theory is only absolutely necessary if you have no ear whatsoever. And if you don't, you shouldn't be playing anyway.
 
#412
Milk said:
I think theory is good for sure. If you care to learn it, do, i don't see how it can hinder you. But it is BS to say that anyone who doesn't learn theory is gonna be stuck in a three chords rut. Maybe someone who isn't adventurous or doesn't have an ear. It's not like you cant discover chords or chords progression without theory you know....its all there on the fretboard for you to discover. Eventually, theory or not, you will know what works with what and what sounds good with what. I don't know any theory. I mean, i know stuff but not by name. I guess i DO know theory technically but i cant explain any of it i just know what works together (i don't even know notes beyond the open strings, i never studied chord charts or anything of the like...but i DID pick up endless amount of song by ear, both on bass and guitar).

Definitely if you want to properly jam learning theory is a good thing, I can jam but if someone is switching keys left and right all the time, well...i probably can't follow without messing up a little here and there until i figure out what just happened (whereas with theory someone could tell me the key switch) but it is not necessary to write and compose music (personally i find jamming overrated...but then again my musical interests don't have much to do with improv and jamming) and I am fairly certain there's been a good amount of people who made millions in music who knew no or little theory. And i don't mean just ****** bands. Theory is only absolutely necessary if you have no ear whatsoever. And if you don't, you shouldn't be playing anyway.
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That's my point and maybe (do I dare say his name :hmm:) Jeff Berlin's too.

No one is saying you need theory to play. Many people play to their deaths not knowing theory and having a great time doing it. Even have a following too.

I worked with a fellow who could not read or write. I would read his job instructions to him and he would work and do a fine job.

Supported his family by just speaking and hearing but, outside the job he had a hard time without someone helping him and if no one was there to help well...

Again it's what you want to do. Many people have even said here that they have even studied theory and still can't read or write as well as they may understand it.

H E double hockey sticks I studied English, I've been speaking it since I was a little guy and to this day I still have trouble with it and, it's my first language :scowl: :D

But if one wants to and I said wants to advance in music like any language the best way is to study as much as you can. Involve a good reputable teacher, get all info you can and learn, learn, learn :hyper:

See in your own commits you say you can play and you use your ears to get along but there are things you have trouble with, like my not reading and writing friend. You still can't hear everything
"I can jam but if someone is switching keys left and right all the time, well...i probably can't follow without messing up a little here and there until i figure out what just happened " and
"(i don't even know notes beyond the open strings, i never studied chord charts or anything of the like...but i DID pick up endless amount of song by ear, both on bass and guitar)."

Those would be my first areas of study.

All I am saying is the more you learn the better you'll be.

“The beautiful thing about learning is no one can take it away from you.” — B.B. King
 
#413
taurus1 said:
I'm going to leave this thread now because the point I'm trying to get across is being completely missed.
I'm all for learning theory, I agree with every suggestion that it is nothing but positive.
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The point isn't missed, you are just wrong. :D

Yup, all the great explorers just walked out their front door and kept walking until they got where they were going. Never looked at a map, no preparation, had no idea where they were going. Yup, that sounds right.
 
#416
taurus1 said:
once again, the comprehension fail is of a level I could only attribute to a special needs donkey.
you see, the "explorers" didn't use a map and didn't need a map, which is a good thing because a map didn't exist yet.
BECAUSE THEY WERE THE ONES MAKING THE MAP.
I never said they didn't use navigational equipment or skills.
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So, what you're really saying is that they learned all about the maps that did exist, they learned all about map making, they learned all about navigation, and then, after they had learned all the knowledge of the tools that are used to describe and notate their world, and familiarized themselves with what others had discovered, measured, and notated, then they set off to adventure into areas that others had not yet gone.

Yeah, I can see how that is exactly like playing music while knowing absolutely nothing about theory. 'Cause, the world is like music, and the map is like music notation, and understanding the techniques we use to make a map that is a coded abstract representation of a much larger and complex real thing is like, uhm....

Uh oh.



:smug:
 
#417
Major Softie said:
So, what you're really saying is that they learned all about the maps that did exist, they learned all about map making, they learned all about navigation, and then, after they had learned all the knowledge of the tools that are used to describe and notate their world, and familiarized themselves with what others had discovered, measured, and notated, then they set off to adventure into areas that others had not yet gone.

Yeah, I can see how that is exactly like playing music while knowing absolutely nothing about theory. 'Cause, the world is like music, and the map is like music notation, and understanding the techniques we use to make a map that is a coded abstract representation of a much larger and complex real thing is like, uhm....

Uh oh.
Click to expand...

Brilliant post! You summed up the value of education perfectly :-)
 

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