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Is music theory important?

#361
lwknives said:
That situation is not likely to be encountered by someone who is focusing on writing original music for performing rock shows. It is also not a situation that will be encountered by a bass player who is starting a working cover band.

Theory is VERY important if you are trying to jam with people or you are doing improvisational music but not everybody wants to do that.

BTW, I could have figured out the song you mentioned in one turn around before I knew any theory at all.
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I don't know what you call "original rock music" but not all of it is as dumb as people think. Never have I been disappointed with my theory knowledge when trying to play these. I know Avenged Sevenfold likes to use keys of D minor and A minor, typically focusing on the D, A, Bb, Eb, and F chord progressions. They also like harmonic minor, diminished, and chromatic runs. The duel guitar leads tend to be harmonies of a 3rd (or a 6th depending on how you look at it). Save Me has a very complicated rhythm to follow until you figure out the 6/8 timing with the pickup notes. Some of the faster rolls are straight triplets and easier to keep track of that way.

I think music theory has helped me greatly with a number of things and allowed me to pick up music very quickly. I joined a new band recently and was able to pick up 6 of their original songs in one practice. Now when the writer shows us a song I'm able to pick it up by watching his fingers because I can see the chords and progressions and it all just makes sense and it's easier to memorize. It also helps me follow more melodic lines and right my own fills more easily.

An easy trap to fall into though is being theoretically "perfect". At first I wouldn't play any accidentals or anything that I thought was "wrong". That was my biggest obstacle to let go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqLPb0_ygKk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ipv_l7KoSI

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuT2mQaTno0
 
#362
Not knowing music theory and playing music is like being a professional novelist and not understanding spelling, grammar, or the elements of style. You would be surprised how many musicians are well educated in music theory. Just look up the alumni / alumna list for Berklee College of Music.
 
#363
Hahaha said:
I've been the dumb guy in the band, and now I'm the smart guy. It's MUCH more satisfying and rewarding to be the smart guy. If you don't know theory, go get a basic theory book and start reading. You will not regret it. You may find that you actually enjoy studying theory, as I do.
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This is what gets lost so often in these discussions: if you love music, love listening to and playing different kinds of music, you will love learning music theory. It is not a set of rules that will tell you you're playing wrong, it's a body of thought that explains why and how music works. It's fascinating and fun. Learning it isn't going to kill your creativity or feel, unless you fall into the false trap of thinking it's a set of rules. It isn't, it is merely an explanation and set of names for musical concepts that make it easier to communicate musical ideas quickly and unambiguously.
 
#364
HolmeBass said:
This is what gets lost so often in these discussions: if you love music, love listening to and playing different kinds of music, you will love learning music theory. It is not a set of rules that will tell you you're playing wrong, it's a body of thought that explains why and how music works. It's fascinating and fun. Learning it isn't going to kill your creativity or feel, unless you fall into the false trap of thinking it's a set of rules. It isn't, it is merely an explanation and set of names for musical concepts that make it easier to communicate musical ideas quickly and unambiguously.
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That's the way it was for me at a young age. I had always been so in love with playing music that learning some theory was very enjoyable, magical actually. It was wonderful to understand things as well as to be able to move forward even better.

Some of it isn't easy to a beginner, though. Some of the terminology keeps some folks at bay, I reckon. For instance, when I was teaching I remember trying to explain why a diminished 7th means lower the 7th two half-steps when a diminished 5th goes down only one half-step---or why other intervals are called minor when lowered. Eyes would roll and brains would overheat. But, those who REALLY wanted to know stuck with it until they got it all down. Personally, I find theory to be fascinating.
 
#365
I was listening to an interview last night with jazz great Harold Mabern. the guy's played with everybody and he has some amazing stories.
he was talking about his time playing with Wes Montgomery and the fact that Montgomery's music was so complex, yet he couldn't read or write music.
same with Django Reinhardt, could read or write anything including music.
we can discuss the merits of theory until the end of time but the bottom line is, you don't need it to communicate, or become one of the most influential musicians of all time.
 
#366
taurus1 said:
I was listening to an interview last night with jazz great Harold Mabern. the guy's played with everybody and he has some amazing stories.
he was talking about his time playing with Wes Montgomery and the fact that Montgomery's music was so complex, yet he couldn't read or write music.
same with Django Reinhardt, could read or write anything including music.
we can discuss the merits of theory until the end of time but the bottom line is, you don't need it to communicate, or become one of the most influential musicians of all time.
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... if you're Wes or Django. For us mere mortals, it's really helpful.
 
#368
Music is like any other language. You get out of it what you put into it.

Some folks get through life without reading or writing.
Some can build a vocabulary just by listening to others and are able to use the words they hear in proper fashion and communicate to other and maneuver through life fine but, at a limited level.

Even though Wes or D'jango made a mark in music without the further study of the language as a lot of other musicians do, a very few will make it to that level without a deep study of the language. Just like people who can't read or write may make it but, at what level. No too many Rogue Scholars come through without reading or writing. Not saying it can't be done but, again how many Wes are out there.

So really it's about what does one want.
If you want to play with like minded people at that level, or jam with buddies fine.

If you want to work in the music world you could slide through but, your opportunities
will be limited by your understanding of the language.

If you want to use the language to it's full you need to study it and practise it. Just like you learned your first language you speak and read and write in now.

But that's just me :)
 
#369
Dbt25677 said:
Hypothetically, if I wanted to be the next big spunky rockstar, would studying music be important? Even if I had a heartfelt passion for playing bass or guitar or whatever, is it really important to know how many beats a quaver goes for? To me, theory isn't what music is about. Music is about playing something that sounds good (to me atleast) and feeling a connection to your instrument or words beyond logic or reason.
What do you think?
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learn it in your own way.. music theory is like gps, it gives direction to the bass line harmonically, i was listening to paul chambers and thought, wow, that guy really knows where he's going (in reference to his walking bass-line), i don't think he could have done that without learning music theory and then doing his own thing.
 
#370
taurus1 said:
I hear you but my point is, it really has zero to do with the ability too create or play music at the highest level.
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On this I would have to say no. While it's true they may not have been able to read or write. The things they played still adhered to music theory.
They still had ears and an understanding and were following the theory.

So as I was saying some can learn a vocabulary by listening and get to a place where they are using the oral part of the language
correctly and still not read or write.

There are few that can create at that high of a level.

Like learning Shakespeare orally and not reading it. I think it would be hard to lean and even harder to relate without writing it down.

But that's just me. :)
 
#371
I've known musicians who were good at reading & writing music, but didn't know theory that well, and I've known theory buffs that didn't read or write music notation that well. You can be an excellent speller, but be poor at grammar and vice versa. I learned a lot of theory from band mates who took the time to explain chord construction and such to me before I ever learned how to read music well.

From listening to Django and Wes I am inclined to think that they understood theory regardless of their musical literacy. They certainly could recongnize major, minor, diminished and augmented chords and obviously knew how and when to play them, so I wouldn't say they didn't know theory. They may not have been great at explaining it, but they sure knew how to use it. Then again, it's possible that they didn't know what they were doing and simply had great ears. We can only speculate.
 
#372
Hahaha said:
I've known musicians who were good at reading & writing music, but didn't know theory that well, and I've known theory buffs that didn't read or write music notation that well. You can be an excellent speller, but be poor at grammar and vice versa. I learned a lot of theory from band mates who took the time to explain chord construction and such to me before I ever learned how to read music well.

From listening to Django and Wes I am inclined to think that they understood theory regardless of their musical literacy. They certainly could recongnize major, minor, diminished and augmented chords and obviously knew how and when to play them, so I wouldn't say they didn't know theory. They may not have been great at explaining it, but they sure knew how to use it. Then again, it's possible that they didn't know what they were doing and simply had great ears. We can only speculate.
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I dig that :D
That where I was trying to come from. You got to the core. :)
 
#374
I think a grasp of at least the fundamentals of theory is a good thing. Honestly, I wish I had made a concentrated study of it when I was a much younger player. You can get theory by osmosis if you make a study of the specific genres of music that you want to write and play, and you play your ass off. But actually studying theory will make you a better player a lot faster, and will cement concepts and tie them together for you. It will also make it easier to communicate complex ideas to your band mates if you are all speaking the same language.

It kind of depends on who you are, what you want to do, and how far you want to take things. Using myself as an example: I'm a self taught guy. I know my time, I know my modes, pitch, how to write, etc. But I can't sight read. Within the framework of what I do on my own and with the band (writing original rock music), I haven't needed sight reading. Would it still be a useful skill for me to have? Certainly. And if I were interested in doing session work? You bet your ass you need it there.

It's like shooting. Everybody wants to go launch bullets downrange as fast as they can because it's fun. But that's not what makes you a good shooter. A calculated approach towards the goal of mastering the fundamentals is what makes you a good shooter. But most people aren't interested in doing that because it's tedious and boring. An hour of focused dry fire practice is boring. 100 correct speed reloads done at 1/4 speed is boring. It's a lot more exciting to stand there giggling in a cloud of gun smoke.

Knowledge is power, fundamentals are king, and repetition is god. Study and practice. And have fun!
 
#375
manghu67 said:
actually studying theory will make you a better player a lot faster, and will cement concepts and tie them together for you. It will also make it easier to communicate complex ideas to your band mates if you are all speaking the same language.

But I can't sight read. Within the framework of what I do on my own and with the band (writing original rock music), I haven't needed sight reading.
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Should I understand that
sight reading is equal to music theory?
 
#376
jdwinva said:
Not knowing music theory and playing music is like being a professional novelist and not understanding spelling, grammar, or the elements of style. You would be surprised how many musicians are well educated in music theory. Just look up the alumni / alumna list for Berklee College of Music.
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The thing is most people claiming they don't know any music theory also don't know how to read music ... so if are a novelist they would have to be being a micro and tell their story verbally. because they can't even wrote it down on paper.
 
#377
Is mathmatics important? Is a map important for going for the first time from point A to Point B? Is it important to know how an internal combustion engine works. Is it important to know how to use your Smart Phone?

Perhaps being music theory ignorant is an advantage. Ya think?
 
#378
bassdude51 said:
Is mathmatics important? Is a map important for going for the first time from point A to Point B? Is it important to know how an internal combustion engine works. Is it important to know how to use your Smart Phone?

Perhaps being music theory ignorant is an advantage. Ya think?
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is it an advantage to not know how to read English because you couldn't read and learn about complex math, you couldn't read your book about internal combustion engine and know how it works, you could read the manual of your smart phone and discover something about it that you didn't know or you could read about an application on you phone that nobody else use but will resolve your problem but since no one you know have your problem no one can help you.

You learn English by listening to your parents and trying to imitate the sound they make. True but then if it was only that, we would be at kindergarden level all our lives until someone with more knowledge speak with us. Our thought, the quality of our vocabulary etc all took a huge leap foward when we start to read and continue to grow as we read about more and more complex subject.

Same thing in music.
 

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