You definitely aren't alone there. I'm picky with vocals - and music generally. I've heard he's good live - I can't go coz they have high price tickets that say 'U2' on them
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Is my lead singer that bad?
- Thread starter Manuel101
- Start date
You definitely aren't alone there. I'm picky with vocals - and music generally. I've heard he's good live - I can't go coz they have high price tickets that say 'U2' on them
The guy from Dream Theaters probably an awesome singer, but I can't listen to him for more than two seconds. Its not always the quality for me but how it fits with the music, if not I would'nt enjoy Rush, Janes Addiction or half the bands I've listened to.
Bono's an awesome singer. Almost always dead-on with the pitch and phrasing, and really knows how to sell a band onstage.
Exactly.
I only got through about 25 seconds of the video. His pitch and vocal control is horrible. A bad monitor mix can make singing difficult, but most pro vocalists can compensate by paying extra attention to their head voice to get through. Sometimes they may be a little flat or sharp, but it's obvious that they can sing. It's obvious that this guy can't sing, regardless of monitor mix or having a bad gig or having a cold or not being warmed up or whatever. He just lacks any type of vocal technique or ear.
However, I do agree with those here who say that it's in bad taste to post up an unsolicated video of your singer.
Does that me I'm condoning it by responding?
You feel that way - and I feel different. I think he can sing well, and can perform (kinda hard to doubt that). Without hating on him the best I can say is he 'doesn't do it for me'.
If somebody like he ability-wise wanted a bassist and I got an offer I'd take it. Good but I just don't see the 'wow' bit - like I do in many other groups of varying levels of success.
Perfectly stated.
My band hired a new singer at the beginning of the year. My guitarist, drummer, and I are all vets with lots of stage time. Our singer had sung in previous bands but was much more green compared to us. However, we knew he was a helluva singer and didn't have any attitude. We were willing to work with him despite the experience gap, and it was a good move on our part. He's really stepped up his game.
However, he already pretty much had the goods when we hired him. He just needs a little direction now and again. That's different than somebody who steps in with major flaws and you hope, as Sessions says, that they'll eventually grow. As this point in my life and music career, I just don't have the patience to take on somebody who isn't an A-lister (or at least has serious A-lister potential like our singer). I was green too at one point, as was everyone on this board. However, before I joined my first serious band, I still made sure I knew how to play well. If I were the bass equivalent of the singer in the original post, I wouldn't have even tried out for a band until I had a suitable amount of chops.
The problem, though, is that many people are bad who don't know they're bad. About a year ago, I read a psychology journal article that looked at metacognition and how it related to critiquing one's own performance. The investigators found that as your skills at a task become better, your ability to objectively critique your own performance of the task becomes better. However, people with low ability don't have the necessary metacognitive skills to critique their own ability. In other words, people who suck often suck too much to realize that they suck.
What's interesting is that now we're talking about sucky singers in famous bands. The differences between U2, Dream Theater...or in my opinion...lungfish, shellac, or many other indie screamo acts...is the presentation of crappy vocals. This guy has no presentation and crappy vocals. That's the difference.
You guys have put a lot of effort into your band, but that singer will only bring you down. Maybe consider re-arranging your material to minimize the crooning and reign him in to a tighter delivery with shorter phrases. All that long wailing really lays his weaknesses bare.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying here, Jimmy. But I do have to take issue with this:
While I love each and everyone of those singer's bands, Steven Tyler is the only one I'd really consider a technically good vocalist. Rose has an impressive range, but the timbre of his voice is an acquired taste. Farrell and Kiedis are pitchy on their recordings! My point is that it's not at all surprising that these world famous vocalists have had some bad performances. They aren't really technically great to begin with (sorry about ending the sentence with a preposition, Munji).
Each one of those vocalists has something very unique and special that shines within the context of their given bands. But if I were hiring a singer for any given project, not considering their current star status, it's very possible that I wouldn't hire any of them.
While I love each and everyone of those singer's bands, Steven Tyler is the only one I'd really consider a technically good vocalist. Rose has an impressive range, but the timbre of his voice is an acquired taste. Farrell and Kiedis are pitchy on their recordings! My point is that it's not at all surprising that these world famous vocalists have had some bad performances. They aren't really technically great to begin with (sorry about ending the sentence with a preposition, Munji).
Each one of those vocalists has something very unique and special that shines within the context of their given bands. But if I were hiring a singer for any given project, not considering their current star status, it's very possible that I wouldn't hire any of them.
Dylan doesn't sound "pretty" but at least he can carry a tune and has some talent.
All you guys complaining about the "fire him" culture here on TB... you're failing to acknowledge that there are times when "fire him" is the correct course. I'm not saying that's the right course here (although I would lean that way), but c'mon... sometimes it's the right thing to do.
All you guys complaining about the "fire him" culture here on TB... you're failing to acknowledge that there are times when "fire him" is the correct course. I'm not saying that's the right course here (although I would lean that way), but c'mon... sometimes it's the right thing to do.
He sounds fine on the recordings. He sounds terrible on the live video.
So what's different?
My guess is:
1) He's over excited/nervous for live shows
2) He can't hear himself
3) He's straining because he can't hear himself.
All correctable IMO.
So what's different?
My guess is:
1) He's over excited/nervous for live shows
2) He can't hear himself
3) He's straining because he can't hear himself.
All correctable IMO.
I'm not saying fire him, but there are arguments that say going down the "keep" road will have hurdles and may or may not ever pan out. And there are arguments saying "cut your losses now" and find the appropriate replacement. Both have merit really. Music is a double edged sword. It's about fun and fun with those you surround yourself with. Then you cross that line of "We're going for it" and all deals are off.
Which side of the sword are you on? This may help your decision.
Which side of the sword are you on? This may help your decision.
If you are driven to reach the top of the heap, all your members must have the same drive. They all need to be equally strong and dependant on one another.
No drugs. Period. No excuses.
Alcohol abuse not tolerated.
Get rid of that ugly hat!
He can't sing. Just can't sing.
I remember one year we had a band and were told to get a front singer. We auditioned more than a dozen singers. When we were about to give up hope, Ms. Right came in and blew us away. When she sang a song, we all went WOW!!!!!! And she had Presence.
I agree with other posters, this guy may have issues beyond your band, but this is your business. He needs to take a break and take some lessons, get some therapy, and get over the medicinal use. You need to hold a very big audition for vocalists. And don't settle. Who knows, maybe someone in your band can sing well and no one knows it. That's what happened with Phil Collins and Genesis!
It is not your job to provide counselling or rehabilitation to people. Your job is to get the very best band together and shoot for the stars. Remember, people will look at your singer first, and believe me, he was not impressing.
Even beyond that, the fact that no one on this post went, "WOW THAT GUY IS AWESOME! or WOW HE HAS POTENTIAL!" indicates in one polite way or another the guy needs to step aside and you need to find that shining star that will carry you guys to the top.
Keep in touch with him, see how he's doing. Let him know you appreciated his efforts, but cut the ties as soon as possible.
Good luck.
No drugs. Period. No excuses.
Alcohol abuse not tolerated.
Get rid of that ugly hat!
He can't sing. Just can't sing.
I remember one year we had a band and were told to get a front singer. We auditioned more than a dozen singers. When we were about to give up hope, Ms. Right came in and blew us away. When she sang a song, we all went WOW!!!!!! And she had Presence.
I agree with other posters, this guy may have issues beyond your band, but this is your business. He needs to take a break and take some lessons, get some therapy, and get over the medicinal use. You need to hold a very big audition for vocalists. And don't settle. Who knows, maybe someone in your band can sing well and no one knows it. That's what happened with Phil Collins and Genesis!
It is not your job to provide counselling or rehabilitation to people. Your job is to get the very best band together and shoot for the stars. Remember, people will look at your singer first, and believe me, he was not impressing.
Even beyond that, the fact that no one on this post went, "WOW THAT GUY IS AWESOME! or WOW HE HAS POTENTIAL!" indicates in one polite way or another the guy needs to step aside and you need to find that shining star that will carry you guys to the top.
Keep in touch with him, see how he's doing. Let him know you appreciated his efforts, but cut the ties as soon as possible.
Good luck.
my thoughts about singing...
it's 80% having the nuts to get up and do it (or being nuts, one of the 2)
10%...talent/actually being able to sing
10%...SELLING that you can sing and have the talent.
That being said...I listened to the live recording (not the entire passage/song, but enough). I can hear a very Tom Petty-esque
quality in his voice and with the right guidence he could pull it off, his stage presence is something is not quite the 10% of being able to sell it (from what I've seen, he's about 3-4% there, talent 6-7% imo). This is a person that is talented, and knows it, but hasn't had the guidence to harness it and use their ability to it's fullest extent. Personally if I were in your position, I would encourage him to either take lessons, or work with him...as you practice on your bass, guitar (pitched instrument)..have him sing the notes you play, in pitch and in time with you. (just a thought, but I wouldn't give up on him just yet.)
it's 80% having the nuts to get up and do it (or being nuts, one of the 2)
10%...talent/actually being able to sing
10%...SELLING that you can sing and have the talent.
That being said...I listened to the live recording (not the entire passage/song, but enough). I can hear a very Tom Petty-esque
quality in his voice and with the right guidence he could pull it off, his stage presence is something is not quite the 10% of being able to sell it (from what I've seen, he's about 3-4% there, talent 6-7% imo). This is a person that is talented, and knows it, but hasn't had the guidence to harness it and use their ability to it's fullest extent. Personally if I were in your position, I would encourage him to either take lessons, or work with him...as you practice on your bass, guitar (pitched instrument)..have him sing the notes you play, in pitch and in time with you. (just a thought, but I wouldn't give up on him just yet.)
LOL ! You're kidding me, right ? You think this guy has any of the qualities of the famous singers you've brought up ? Name one besides singing in a band .
LOL ! I'm only laughing at your percentages. I wish , believe me . I wish. The second part should be done before a dismissal.
The audio in the youtube vid was not very well recorded overall. The bass had too much mids and needed more in the 1khz and 150hz areas.
But the singer sounded like he was trying to sound loud without turning up the mixer volume, probably trying to avoid feedback. This is maybe due to that he's singing out of his key range. He must find his key range it's where he'll feel comfortable in.
But the singer sounded like he was trying to sound loud without turning up the mixer volume, probably trying to avoid feedback. This is maybe due to that he's singing out of his key range. He must find his key range it's where he'll feel comfortable in.
