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Is my lead singer that bad?

#141
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#142
dbd1963 said:
Let's not forget that they sell auto-tune like units for singers now. He can surely use one of those live. That would fix a lot of his problems, and could even add some backing vocals when he wants them.

A singer in one of my bands has this thing:

http://www.amazon.com/Electronics-V...1-catcorr&keywords=tc+helicon+voicelive+touch
Click to expand...

I don't know about auto-tune. Our keyboard player used one, but you could hear it working and the rest of us laughed at him until he quit using it. He just needed to work at it a little harder.

Never say never, maybe that's what he needs.

But auto-tune is one of the reasons that music today just sounds so corperate and dead, IMO.

Personally, I just hate it.
 
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#143
As an Amazon Associate, TalkBass may receive commissions from qualifying purchases made via links on this site.
#144
The two auto tunes I've played with require a subtle touch to get the best out of them, otherwise they sound very coarse and noticeable, particularly if a singer is into glissing between semitones.

My feeling is that they can make a really good singer sound perfect, and a really bad singer sound like someone practicing scales.

As for backing tracks ..... well just call yourself a dj and be done with it, cause that's what you will be if you go that route.

Mike
 
#145
now I haven't read all the posts here so this might be a repeat of what someone else says.

we recently kicked out our singer because he didn't pratice and smoked way too much weed. One of his major issues, was that he only sang with his throat, meaning after 1 set his voice was burned out. giving that I'm a singing instructor I found him some books to read ( complete vocal tecnique by catrine sadolin - read if you do sing - it's really awesome and explains way more than any books I've ever seen on the subject ). He had all the help he wanted, but instead he just sat at home smoking weed and not improving at all.
we write originals, and 6 months before we threw him out we sat down and had a talk. telling him that he really had to improve, at least practice at home, maybe seek a vocal coach ( or me ) to help him out. we ended up sending demos to him, with and without cue vocals because he couldn't come up with a phrase to save his life.
that didn't help either, so we ended up kicking him out.

the morale to this story?
just because it feels like a personal attack to tell the singer to work on his instrument, it really isn't. if I played as many false notes on the bass as he did singing, I really hope someone would have had a sit-down with me.

as for the pitch correcting idea, to me that's more of an effect than a crutch. To me it would sound very wierd to use it with that band - doesn't fit the music-style imo.

I think that he's using vibrato that much because that's how he conserves air, a quick way to remedy that is to bite down on your underlip as you suck in air, forcing you to use your stomach to suck in the air. just after that breath, you most likely will have activated your stomach to give the needed support.
and remember you can use your diaphram ( is that what's its called?) to either pull back on the amount of air you use or push more for more volume. switching between those to gives you a better vibrato, at least IMHO.

good luck with the sit-down if that's what you choose to do.
 
#148
We had a rehearsal last night and he was pitchy, he said his voice was not warmed up yet. Then after we finished rehearsing he said can we try that song one more time my voice is warmed up. we took our instruments out and recorded the song he was still pitchy as hell. we try telling him that he needs to write parts that are not so high so that he doesnt sound so out of tune. he reply the he has been singing since he was 16 and that he was signed before blah blah blah and he can still sing those high extended notes. then i said bro you are not in the same predicament now, there are a few things different now that dont allow you to sing like you could before so write music that emphasizes your strengths and not your weakness. He would not consider what we were saying then he played back the last song we just played and he told us is sounded good and we were like NO that is out of tune he was like no i just bended the note. So we are probably just going to give him two more shows to pull it off or else.
 
#149
Also guys could you please go to our videos and write down what you think? Dont be brutal though just write some of the things you wrote here so that we can show him what people think about us. again please dont write things like you guys suck or that singer is horrible but say it in a polite way that he needs to step it up. Maybe if he sees what other people think he might see the light. I figure he probably thinks he sings well and it's just us not knowing what we are talking about.
 
#150
By the way i was thinking of writing another thread were I ask "what do you think of my band" and provide the same link so that some of you (if you have the time) can write what you wrote here. That way I can show it to the band since i cant show them this thread (because i named it is my singer that bad and they might not appreciate that since it looks like I am undermining the band).
 
#152
Manuel101 said:
We had a rehearsal last night and he was pitchy, he said his voice was not warmed up yet. Then after we finished rehearsing he said can we try that song one more time my voice is warmed up. we took our instruments out and recorded the song he was still pitchy as hell. we try telling him that he needs to write parts that are not so high so that he doesnt sound so out of tune. he reply the he has been singing since he was 16 and that he was signed before blah blah blah and he can still sing those high extended notes. then i said bro you are not in the same predicament now, there are a few things different now that dont allow you to sing like you could before so write music that emphasizes your strengths and not your weakness. He would not consider what we were saying then he played back the last song we just played and he told us is sounded good and we were like NO that is out of tune he was like no i just bended the note. So we are probably just going to give him two more shows to pull it off or else.
Click to expand...
Does he not realize that being signed and dropped means the company ultimately didn't care for what his band was doing? Signed...LOL! I'd have said, "Well you're not signed anymore, are you?" I hate morons who think they're a big deal because they had some sort of deal that fell through.

Dude, at first, I felt bad for the guy and I thought you did him wrong. But now I withdraw any support I used to have for him, and instead I'll say do what you have to do.
 
#153
Your singer has some very good qualities but does need to work on pitch. Sounds to me like he needs a vocal coach and lots of practice but could be good if he worked at it.
A singer is someone who gets up in the morning gets dressed and then sings. A vocalist is someone who gets up in the morning works on scales, arpeggios, and intervals. Then does some breathing exercises and spends an hour or so working on theory.
A singer uses what they are born with and rarely develop or improve on that. A vocalist works to get better and improves day by day (like most other musicians).
Your guy is a singer not a vocalist. You might try encouraging him to become a vocalist.
 
#154
wong99 said:
Your singer has some very good qualities but does need to work on pitch. Sounds to me like he needs a vocal coach and lots of practice but could be good if he worked at it.
A singer is someone who gets up in the morning gets dressed and then sings. A vocalist is someone who gets up in the morning works on scales, arpeggios, and intervals. Then does some breathing exercises and spends an hour or so working on theory.
A singer uses what they are born with and rarely develop or improve on that. A vocalist works to get better and improves day by day (like most other musicians).
Your guy is a singer not a vocalist. You might try encouraging him to become a vocalist.
Click to expand...

His ego won't let him consider getting lessons.
 
#157
wong99 said:
Your singer has some very good qualities but does need to work on pitch. Sounds to me like he needs a vocal coach and lots of practice but could be good if he worked at it.
A singer is someone who gets up in the morning gets dressed and then sings. A vocalist is someone who gets up in the morning works on scales, arpeggios, and intervals. Then does some breathing exercises and spends an hour or so working on theory.
A singer uses what they are born with and rarely develop or improve on that. A vocalist works to get better and improves day by day (like most other musicians).
Your guy is a singer not a vocalist. You might try encouraging him to become a vocalist.
Click to expand...

+1

The guy has the potential to be a good singer, but he needs voice lessons to teach him how to breathe properly, sing from his diaphragm and not his throat, how to warm up properly and how to stretch and exercise his voice muscles. What he needs to understand is that he has been not singing properly since he was 16, and has done damage that will prevent him from hitting the high notes without a lot of work. Singing is like any other instrument, you need to wood shed and get better. If his ego is that big and he cannot understand the simple concept that he needs to learn to sing correctly, then he needs to go. He isn't going to get better, he will only get worse the more he damages his voice.

Also I listened to some of your recordings. At least he was on pitch and his voice sounded good but he was warbling the whole time and that is a technique problem too.
 
#159
electracoyote said:
Anything that prevents you from actually working for it.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing: as you can see from post #149, he's not working for it. Maybe that's because his ego is in the way, or maybe (as Manuel101's post suggests), he simply can't hear when he is out of tune.

I agree that using pitch correction isn't ideal, but when a singer can't hear his own pitchiness, mixing in a little pitch correction can give him a target. The hardware can be set up to go to monitors only, or monitors + FOH; and the level of the pitch corrected vocal vs. the pre-effect vox can be varied using either the hardware or an aux send.

Yeah, it would be better if Manuel's boy had spent the last couple years woodshedding, but that's not really on the table at this point for pulling the next gigs out of the fire. If he wants to get his singer to hear the problem, this is one tool to get there. Pragmatism vs. idealism; but in the situation, all idealism leaves Manuel101 is the the dump-him-already option. (JimmyM: weren't you just railing against this?)
 
#160
derrico1 said:
Here's the thing: as you can see from post #149, he's not working for it. Maybe that's because his ego is in the way, or maybe (as Manuel101's post suggests), he simply can't hear when he is out of tune.

I agree that using pitch correction isn't ideal, but when a singer can't hear his own pitchiness, mixing in a little pitch correction can give him a target. The hardware can be set up to go to monitors only, or monitors + FOH; and the level of the pitch corrected vocal vs. the pre-effect vox can be varied using either the hardware or an aux send.

Yeah, it would be better if Manuel's boy had spent the last couple years woodshedding, but that's not really on the table at this point for pulling the next gigs out of the fire. If he wants to get his singer to hear the problem, this is one tool to get there.
Click to expand...

Or they could grit their teeth and bear it through the next couple of gigs while simultaneously doing it the old fashioned way: Beginning a round of auditions for someone who has put in the work and preparing to axe the guy who hasn't.

Like someone said, autotune is not the sure-fire quick fix some people think it is. It's often difficult to use in an effective and transparent way.

And lead singer could be tempted to use it as a crutch for the rest of his singing career and an excuse as to why he shouldn't be replaced. It solves nothing.

If I hit so many bad notes as a bassist to the point my bandmates were tempted to use a sequenced bass track behind me, I would hope they were also smart enough to start auditioning bass players as well.
 

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