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Is Squire a bad thing ?

#42
I am too lazy to read down the entire thread so sorry if someone else has gotten on this. But it is "Squier" not "Squire".

And I currently have, and previously have owned Squier basses that I am very pleased with. No it is not the same as a Fender American Custom Shop instrument, and it is priced accordingly. It IS however a very good, serviceable, playable, good sounding, and heavily moddable instrument. Squier IS a Fender branded product (Read the headstock, it says Squier by Fender, just like the Cadillac ElDorado says El Dorado by Caddilac). My Squier Affinity Series Jazz Bass came factory packaged in Fender boxes, with Fender strings blah blah blah.

Point being Squier is Fender, just their Asian budget import line, they are far better instruments than they have any right to be at their price point, and given a good setup and some gentle massaging are great player instruments.

If you want a wall hung ornament, or status symbol, avoid a Squier, not too many people are going to be all that impressed with the budget name label, but if you want to keep rocking a great player, and you like the way it plays and sounds, keep rockin that thing!
 
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#43
Batmensch said:
Indeed, you would do yourself if you remembered that any time you deal with a store employee who has an agenda to sell you the most expensive bass they can. Always take what they tell you with a grain of salt.
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VERY true words there. Especially if that sales person / dealer has a financial stake in the sale like the store owner or a commissioned sales person.
 
#44
Antisyzygy said:
For any product there is some price range where you hit the point of diminishing returns (it actually starts right at 0 dollars but the effect isn't really noticeable until the mid-range price brackets). To get a mid-range bass it might cost you 400 bucks. If you want one that is 10% better it might cost you 500 bucks. To get one that is 10% better than the 500 dollar bass it might cost you 700 instead. Prices increase exponentially as quality and features improve. ;)
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This is pretty much spot-on.
And, a well set up Squier may compare favorably in playability to an off-the-rack Fender.
Learning how to do your own setups is where you squeeze the dollar value out of any.... especially a budget model... bass.
 
#46
It's the player that makes the instrument. And if you find something you like that brings out more in yourself and your craft - price, quality and pro or con opinions don't matter. If you like it and it inspires you ~ Ka-Ching! The best bang for your buck that stirs your heart and your soul in this moment is all that matters.
 
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#47
I've made more money on a gig than my vmp5 cost new. Though I've gotten positive comments I've not run into much if any snideness based on the brand of my bass.

That being said, I do have an audition I might play it safe and use a fender first on.
 
#49
BassFishingInAmerica said:
The interesting thing is I've only ever heard people say U.S. Basses are better than Squiers, but are never able to explain why. We're just supposed to believe they are better.
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I believe that if enough people said Limburger Cheese is the best tasting cheese there is.....you would believe it. I now know why so many advertisers keep pumping ideas in our heads. Hear it enough....you'll believe, Their product might be just passable, but say it's phenominal over and over.....it sinks in. A lot of analogies.....sorry.
 
#50
Of course, they're great for modifying, too. I have the CV Jazz in Inca Silver...one of the nicest looking Squiers you can buy...and after I'm done with it (Madison's Ultimate Jazz bass control plate and Lace Sensor Man O' War pickups) I have a feeling it will sound three times better than it does now.
 
#51
Maszkman said:
Yes I believe so. One more thing. I attempted to put a different neck on this VM, and noticed that the mounting space was notas wide. A neck from another bass I have(precision bass) wont fit in the VM's slot. Is this common ?
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Very common, tried to swap the necks on two Squier VM jazz basses and they wouldn't fit. They are both nice basses, I just prefer maple/maple to rosewood/maple necks. If you like the bass, it is NOT unheard of to get a hold of a nice Squier. When people attempt to upsell you on a bass, it's really just them trying to get more money. If you played the two and liked the Squier better, then get it and be happy. With the money you save, you can change out pickups or electronics, something will make a significant change to the tone. I'll be completely honest when I say that I have yet to play a Squier CV bass that wasn't as good or better than any of the MIM Fender's I've picked up. Over the years, I have played PLENTY of both.

Aside from needing to lower the saddles to my preference and adjust the pickup some, my Squier CV Matt Freeman sig. was flawless. Both of those changes were for personal preference, it had nothing to do with the workmanship at all. Paying $379 for that new, I was struggling to figure out how they got the price that low.
 
#53
BassFishingInAmerica said:
The interesting thing is I've only ever heard people say U.S. Basses are better than Squiers, but are never able to explain why. We're just supposed to believe they are better.
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It depends on which MIA model you're comparing to which Squier model, but in general MIAs have the following items that are better I'd say :
  • Body
    • Wood is more expensive
    • Less pieces of wood used
    • More appealing grain patterns are selected (usually)
    • String through body - just more expensive, but more of a preference thing
  • Neck
    • Different profiles in some cases
    • Satin finish on the back, gloss finish on the front (can be a preference)
    • Micro-tilt adjustment
    • Carbon reinforcement rods
    • Dual action truss rod
    • Real bone nut (oddly not on the MIA Standards anymore)
    • Plek'd so fretwork is better on average
  • Fit and Finish
    • More care is put into how the parts all line up during assembly
    • More expensive finishing materials and methods
    • Fewer finish flaws on average
  • Hardware
    • Bridge is upgraded
    • Tuners are upgraded
  • Pickups (somewhat subjective)
    • Pickups have tighter quality control
    • Custom shop pickups
    • 10-50% "better sounding" depending on the models being compared
      • Pretty subjective so consider it an estimate, compare a Affinity Pickup to a MIA Jazz pickup sometime and figure it out for yourself
  • Electronics
    • Higher quality potentiometers - smooth moving with little physical resistance
    • Perhaps better capacitors, I'd imagine tighter tolerances there but they probably doesn't cost much more really
Then MIAs also come with a hardshell case which might run you 100-150 extra on a bass that doesn't come with one. All of those extra features cost money for materials and labor.

That is also not to say you can't find MIMs or Squiers that end up being the cream of the crop in their respective categories. Maybe a guy at a Chinese Factory had a good day and he did the fretwork perfectly on several basses, and the person before him in the assembly line put the finish on the bass perfectly.

Each individual is different, so they might think some of those options aren't important for them or maybe they are a modder and can add a lot of those extras themselves. You can upgrade the hardware, pickups and electronics on a cheaper bass to get those parts at least up to MIA quality.

It's hard to knock a MIM as the best mod platform there is as far as Fender basses go. They have most of the extra fit and finish you need already along with a solid foundation as far as other parts go so it's still a great bass to play while you upgrade it. That is assuming you desire those extras, some people don't need or want them.
 
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#54
Of course the dealer will tell you the American Fenders are much better than the Squiers.
They get more money out of your pocket that way.


Maybe they actually are a bit better. Are they twice or three times as better? No.

Plenty of pros out there are rocking Squiers. Therefore they cannot be a bad thing.
 
#55
To answer your question, Squier basses are fine instruments.
They will however, never be a Fender. That's not saying that some Squier basses aren't better than some Fender basses. It's just saying that having Fender on the headstock is a point of pride for some people. If you can get over what name is on the headstock, and learn how to setup your own instruments, you can save yourself a lot of money.
Some people just really want that Fender logo on the headstock, and that's fine.

As somebody said earlier, "Play righteously and people will accept you no matter what."
 
#58
It shouldnt matter what anyone else says or thinks.. If you like it and it plays well, then that's all that matters. It's got 4 strings and the same body size and feel of an expensive bass. As long as it's well setup, having a Squire over a Fender American Jazz Bass won't hinder your playing or affect your progress. You can always upgrade the pickups too, which is a cheap mod.

I personally have never owned one of those expensive 3000+ boutique basses that many rave about, and I probably never will. Why? I am a working musician who does a lot of touring, and the last thing I want is to take an expensive bass on the road where it will get scratched, damaged, mishandled and possibly even stolen/lost. Also, I have a lot of students and people who watch my youtube videos, and I don't want them to think you need an expensive bass to play and sound like me and have them go out and spend all this money on something that is not that important. The most important part is practicing and learning good technique.

My advice is always to just get something that sounds and feels good to you, regardless of brand and price. If you like an expensive bass and can afford it, then by all means... But if not, don't worry about it, amazing things can be done on cheap basses :)
 
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#59
Enjoy it. Just today, for the first, I really played my Squier P and gave it a fair shake. It's MUCH lighter than my MIM Jazz and actually sounds pretty good, too. I was quite impressed after I got passed my own "gear snob-iness". I'm really quite glad I have it. Edit: I'm not talking about my project bass. It's going to a while before that one's done. I'm talking about the MII Squier I got a couple years ago.
 
#60
I recently purchased a Squire Modified Jazz Bass.
Congratulations!

Dealers tell me it's nothing like a genuine Fender American Jazz Bass.
They want you to spend more money and/or they're snobs.

I happen to like it.
That's all that matters.

It plays very well, and the pickups sound OK.
That's because it's a good bass.

Am I just being awed by the Fender mistique or are there significant differences?
There are significant differences, and if you're awed by Fender mystique then I cannot help you.
 

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