I used to be embarrassed to be seen with my '84 squire bullet b-34 - now, I have a new appreciation and waive my freak flag high!
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Is Squire a bad thing ?
- Thread starter Maszkman
- Start date
Rather than ask if a Squier is better than an MIA Fender, maybe a better way for the OP to think about it is to look at the value of those two basses. That's obviously a question that can't be answered in general for everyone because the value of the pros and cons of each will be different for everyone. But everyone can evaluate the value of a Squier and an MIA against their own criteria and answer it for him/herself.
Think about it this way .... If I'm looking for a bass, I'll have a set of hard requirements (must have's), a set of soft requirements ("would love to have" through "OK to have but not a big deal to me"), a set of "don't care"s, and even a set of "must not have"s (for me, some of these are: no more than 5 strings, no more than 10 pounds, no unusual body shapes, etc.). Ideally I'd want to meet all my hard requirements, avoid all my "must not have"s, and get as many of my soft requirements as possible.
Assuming I find two basses that meet all my hard requirements and also have none of my "must not have"s, then my decision comes down to the value of all the other soft requirements. If I feel like the cost difference of those extra things isn't worth it to me personally, then I buy the cheaper bass. If I look at all the extras on the more expensive bass and feel like the cost difference is small enough that I can justify spending the extra money (and can afford it), then I get the more expensive bass.
That's a lot of words describing what I meant, but I think "value" is a better way to decide than simply asking if an MIA is better than a Squier. Squier's are really good value basses. If you were talking about a boxer, you'd say a Squier punches above its weight class.
Doc, that Dimension is gorgeous!
Think about it this way .... If I'm looking for a bass, I'll have a set of hard requirements (must have's), a set of soft requirements ("would love to have" through "OK to have but not a big deal to me"), a set of "don't care"s, and even a set of "must not have"s (for me, some of these are: no more than 5 strings, no more than 10 pounds, no unusual body shapes, etc.). Ideally I'd want to meet all my hard requirements, avoid all my "must not have"s, and get as many of my soft requirements as possible.
Assuming I find two basses that meet all my hard requirements and also have none of my "must not have"s, then my decision comes down to the value of all the other soft requirements. If I feel like the cost difference of those extra things isn't worth it to me personally, then I buy the cheaper bass. If I look at all the extras on the more expensive bass and feel like the cost difference is small enough that I can justify spending the extra money (and can afford it), then I get the more expensive bass.
That's a lot of words describing what I meant, but I think "value" is a better way to decide than simply asking if an MIA is better than a Squier. Squier's are really good value basses. If you were talking about a boxer, you'd say a Squier punches above its weight class.
Doc, that Dimension is gorgeous!
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Rather than ask if a Squier is better than an MIA Fender, maybe a better way for hte OP is to look at the value of those two basses. That's obviously a question that can't be answered in general for everyone because the value of the pros and cons of each will be different for everyone. But everyone can evaluate the value of a Squier and an MIA against their own criteria and answer it for him/herself.
Think about it this way .... If I'm looking for a bass, I'll have a set of hard requirements (must have's), a set of soft requirements ("would love to have" through "OK to have but not a big deal to me"), a set of "don't care"s, and even a set of "must not have"s (for me, some of these are: more than 5 strings, more than 10 pounds, unusual body shapes, etc.). Ideally I'd want to meet all my hard requirements, avoid all my "must not have"s, and get as many of my soft requirements as possible.
Assuming I find two basses that meet all my hard requirements and also have none of my "must not have"s, then my decision comes down to the value of all the other soft requirements. If I feel like the cost difference of those extra things isn't worth it to me personally, then I buy the cheaper bass. If I look at all the extras on the more expensive bass and feel like the cost difference is small enough that I can justify spending the extra money (and can afford it), then I get the more expensive bass.
That's a lot of words describing what I meant, but I think "value" is a better way to decide than simply asking if an MIA is better than a Squier. Squier's are really good value basses. If talking about a boxer, you'd say a Squier punches above its weight class.
Doc, that Dimension is gorgeous!
That's is part of why I have been posting about it so much!
Like a good friend of mine once reminded me "in the end it is all just wood plastic and metal put together" It doesn't matter what name you put on it. Just matters how it sounds and plays.
That's a very fair statement to make, and I live in Alaska...I understand dry winters completely. I'll be the first to say that when I go into a shop, I'm critical about what I walk out with, and sometimes, a Squier or another company's equivalent is the better option. I'll also say that sometimes, regardless of where an instrument was made, the lower tiers just has a sound that I can't pass up. I actually think that sometimes, the "lesser quality" instruments have some phenomenal pickups, electronics, and general quality and often go overlooked, Squier included.
Meh. I used to worry about things like magical wood from the Tone-Tone Tree and other minutiae like whether or not the nut was carved from unicorn horn and if the bridge and tuners were composed of maximum density unobtanium, and all that stuff.
Over time I came to realize that, for the most part, I couldn't care less. If we were talking about the construction of fine violins or steel- and nylon-string acoustic guitars, etc., I think some of this becomes far more evident and relevant...things like wood selection, thickness, etc.
For me, I've come to feel that with solidbody electric instruments, these things (even--yes!--wood used in bodies, necks and fingerboards!) have such a negligible effect on "tone" that, to my ears and to my mind, I just don't care.
I should say, it's not that I strictly "don't care" but rather that these differences--as well as things like bolt on vs. set neck or neck-through construction, top loading vs. string-through bridges--have such overall minor impact from one instrument to another that while I can often hear and feel differences, I can't objectively say they are 100% due to one variable or another.
Moreover, when it comes to plugging in an electric bass, possibly having some other things in the signal chain such as EQ, effects pedals, modelers, etc. and then especially when playing with other people in a jamming or gigging situation, I get to "Who cares?"
Not to mention that IF you want to alter your tone, increase sustain, sit differently in a mix, etc., there are about 50 ways to do it that are easy, cheap, and have little to nothing to do with what kind of wood your instrument is made from and how long it was dried after harvesting, what elevation the tree it was taken from grew at, the political affiliation of the person who planted it, how many micrograms heavier your bridge is than the stock one, whether the pickguard screws are nickel or stainless steel, etc., etc.
This all really came into focus for me when I got my first cheapie guitar after having played pretty nice stuff for a couple of years in a band I was in. I picked up a cheap Strat copy to keep at our drummer's house. It was plywood. I did replace the bridge pickup, but otherwise it was stock.
Everyone in the band, including myself, preferred the sound of the plywood copy to a '75 Fender Strat I had been using. Why did it sound better? I don't know. I am not claiming it sounded better to us BECAUSE it was plywood, and I have played many laminated/plywood-bodied guitars and basses that felt and sounded like junk.
But this was hammered home again when I had the same experience a couple years later in a different band with a different cheap plywood-bodied guitar.
It then happened a third time--this time with a cheap plywood P bass copy.
For the record, I am not asserting that plywood instruments are superior to solid wood ones.
I am saying there are all kinds of factors that determine what you will like and dislike about any instrument, and it is impossible to try to extrapolate from one experience that something becomes "fact" as in:
"I played an MIA Fender Jazz bass at the local shop, but I liked the feel and sound of a used $300 Squier Jazz bass better. Therefore, inexpensive Squiers are superior to MIA Fenders"
or
"I once played a cheap plywood knockoff Jazz bass and didn't care for it at all. It sounded dull and dead. Therefore, all instruments made of laminated/plywood are inferior and can't be decent instruments."
Any mass produced item, if you take a statistically significant sample size of it, is going to contain in that sample very good examples of the item, very neutral / "meh" examples, and some examples that for whatever reason are shoddy and just seem like crap.
This happens with MIA Fenders just like it happens with $125 Chinese-made Rondo/SX stuff.
I acknowledge that QC is more consistent when it comes to MIA Fenders than with SX or Squier.
My personal feeling is that people should play what they like, enjoy it to the fullest and continually try to improve their playing skills and repertoire.
My main bass right now is a 70s MIJ Lotus-brand P bass copy, plywood. Is it the best bass I have ever owned or played? Not by a mile. It is, however, fully functional, has some nice stock features, a neck that I absolutely love, and it is a blast to play. Sounds nice and woody and thumpy. I cost me a total of $125
This talk about humidity levels and the effect on necks... I guess there is something to be said for living in Houston. Remind me of that in August.
Back OT though, nothing wrong with a Squier. I don't own one myself but sometimes play one my guitarist buddy owns just to avoid hauling one of my own over to his place. It's a great bass. I was the first one to play it in a number of years, so after the first time I played it I took it home and contact-cleanered the pots and restrung it. Sounds great now, even without me messing with the set up.
Back OT though, nothing wrong with a Squier. I don't own one myself but sometimes play one my guitarist buddy owns just to avoid hauling one of my own over to his place. It's a great bass. I was the first one to play it in a number of years, so after the first time I played it I took it home and contact-cleanered the pots and restrung it. Sounds great now, even without me messing with the set up.
Another aspect of this that your post made me think of is that, for me, a lot of places I used to gig were not always the nicest or classiest places. I would not want to take a '64 Fender P bass to a gig like that. Instead I took an early 80s Tokai P-clone that was a very, very good replica of a '64 Fender P.
I've been through a lot of crap in my life, especially in the past 6 years where it seems almost like my family is under a curse we've had so much hard luck and trouble. I mention this all the time, and I apologize, but I bring it up to illustrate a point--
We lost nearly all our possessions in a flood in September, 2010. Roughly 98% of everything my family owned. I lost all my musical gear (including a vintage Martin baritone ukulele my uncle gave me and a 1933 Gibson tenor banjo that had belonged to my grandfather, plus plenty of other stuff.)
What I took away from this is that, going forward, for me, I have very little interest in accumulating "stuff" at all. I would much rather own a couple of basses that cost +/- $300 and have fun with them and not worry about them rather than own multiple $1500-$2000 basses, or even one such bass.
This is just my personal feeling and experience. There is nothing wrong with people who buy a new $3000 boutique bass every other week and have rooms full of gear. If that's what makes them happy--cool! Guitars and basses are wonderful things and I truly dig seeing pics of people's large collections and hearing about NBDs.
I just personally don't care to own "stuff" that is so valuable I have to worry about it. The way possessions can end up possessing their owners is insidious. From here on out, I am a minimalist. I travel light. YMMV and there's no "right or wrong" about this kind of thing. it's just what works for me and my peace of mind. Peace of mind, at my age, being far more valuable to me than any "thing" I could possibly own.
I've come to the same conclusion. To me strings and pickups are the vast bulk of tone.
And the dealers are quite correct in this regard, they don't make nearly as much off a Squire as they do a Genuine Fender... Always consider the source!
This is all you really need to care about.
Oh there are significant differences, mostly price. You may have to do a little more shopping when looking for a Squire, build quality can be a bit more variable than the Fender lines, but playing basses is half the fun of bass shopping, so I'd say that's a bigger plus than it is a minus... I played every Squire I could get my hands on before selecting the one I bought, best week of the last couple years...
Feel the same for me too. It's mostly the pickups for me. Any other hardware...I don't care about as long as they work. Same with the body and finish. The neck feel relating to the frets is the most important for me and a fret job I do myself will fix almost anything to my liking.
100% agree. Our findings correlate!
Beyond that, I firmly believe amps, settings and particularly playing technique/style/attack along with strings and pickups have a far greater impact on overall sound than other things under discussion here.
I have held, played & upgraded squiers and i have always had bad experiences ... according to that, i do not like them. Mexican Fenders are fine!, and also can recommend to choose instead squier, schecter Jackson or Yamaha basses. If money is an issue get used ones.
Loving it! @Muddslide I'm now following you. I'm sorry to hear about the sentimental loss though.
I think the only guitars or basses I've ever hated were ones that didn't sound in tune even after new strings / setup - I had an old guitar on which chords sounded awful despite tuned open strings. I cared for a few years there, a decade or so ago, about names on headstocks because of one or two isolated incidents that acquaintances had, or some opinionated guy online's thoughts. It wore off pretty quick when I could never really hear the difference, especially once the band was going.
I would still love a MIA jazz though. Can't really say why - maybe just to ward off TB's mythical Fender-biased band leader...
I think the only guitars or basses I've ever hated were ones that didn't sound in tune even after new strings / setup - I had an old guitar on which chords sounded awful despite tuned open strings. I cared for a few years there, a decade or so ago, about names on headstocks because of one or two isolated incidents that acquaintances had, or some opinionated guy online's thoughts. It wore off pretty quick when I could never really hear the difference, especially once the band was going.
I would still love a MIA jazz though. Can't really say why - maybe just to ward off TB's mythical Fender-biased band leader...
I have seen Regi Wooten (Victor's older brother and mentor) play a Squire Strat....The Squire basses I have owned and played have generally been great axes, particularly for the money... and I own/have owned a lot of "great" basses - Alembics, vintage fenders, Ricks, vintage Gibsons and even the famous John Judge Double neck - However, my favorite playing basses are a junky old 70' P-bass and a early Squire that plays like Butta. If it feels good enjoy it. Rock on!
