Is the Berg Forte HP too HP?

[MultiScaleMale]

I like the firmware idea that you essentially reflash to a new / different amp, but the power it supplies is meant for large cabs. Sure, you can always be careful until that one time that somebody bumps the knobs and "click" goes your cab.

 

[willsellout]

It’s meant to amplify your signal. It’s not meant for any particular sized cab. I used it with a Genzler 12-3 and a megoliath on separate occasions and managed to not destroy anything.Will soon be using it with a Barefaced super twin. Been playing for quite a while and never had anyone bump my volume knob but I guess you could “what if” any number of scenarios that might damage something. It is a powerful amp. If you don’t need it, go with something with less power if it really concerns you.

 

[husky123]

Can the HP splinter any box you put underneath it? Yes. Will it? Not likely if you’re a reasonable player.
That amp is more about endless buckets of headroom for players that demand ultimate control over the biggest notes no matter the volume. It’s idling along where others are redlining and that lets it control and handle things extremely well because of its power reserve.

 

[MDBass]

I like the firmware idea that you essentially reflash to a new / different amp, but the power it supplies is meant for large cabs. Sure, you can always be careful until that one time that somebody bumps the knobs and "click" goes your cab.

Is someone physically running into your amp in a way that dramatically turns up the master volume knob something that even happens?

It’s never happened to me in almost two decades of gigging, which leads me to believe it’s exceedingly rare at the very most.

Regardless, the HP like any other amp is meant to be used with pretty much any cab: I’ve used it for years now with everything from single 12’s to 810 and 412 stacks.

I used to use a DB750 in the same way.

As Lee mentioned above, the extra power is much more about headroom and dynamic range at all volumes than it is about destroying cabinets.

 

[willsellout]

Also, I haven’t messed with the different versions Jim offers but they don’t change anything other than the drive channel right? It doesn’t make it a different amp, just changes the character of the dirt? Which reminds me I should try those out. I even bought some thumb drives for it.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Is someone physically running into your amp in a way that dramatically turns up the master volume knob something that even happens?

It’s never happened to me in almost two decades of gigging, which leads me to believe it’s exceedingly rare at the very most.

Regardless, the HP like any other amp is meant to be used with pretty much any cab: I’ve used it for years now with everything from single 12’s to 810 and 412 stacks.

I used to use a DB750 in the same way.

As Lee mentioned above, the extra power is much more about headroom and dynamic range at all volumes than it is about destroying cabinets.

On some amps you get the max watts all the time and the volume knob controls the gain into the power amp stage. Others, it will control the wattage of the power amp. If the HP is the latter, then I'd feel better.

 

[Jim Bergantino]

On some amps you get the max watts all the time and the volume knob controls the gain into the power amp stage. Others, it will control the wattage of the power amp. If the HP is the latter, then I'd feel better.

With all do respect, this doesn't make any sense unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say. I think what you mean to say is the gain knob determines your volume/power output as there is no Master volume control which just means the output gain is set to wide open most likely, which means it will amplify what ever level the signal comes in at the same amount. Gain is a multiplication factor. So let's say your output gain is 10. It will multiply your input signal (X) by 10 and your output will be Y=10 x (X). So if the signal coming off your gain stage is 0.25, for example, then your output will be 2.5. If it's 0.5 your output will be 5, etc. Your maximum volume will ultimately be determined by the available output power of your amp. So let's say the max occurs with 10 x (x) = 20, then an input level of 2 will get you to max power of your amp.
Hope this makes sense.

 

[MDBass]

On some amps you get the max watts all the time and the volume knob controls the gain into the power amp stage. Others, it will control the wattage of the power amp. If the HP is the latter, then I'd feel better.

I don’t believe the first scenario you described, where a bass amp is putting out max wattage constantly regardless of volume, EQ or dynamics, actually exists.

That’s why there are different max ratings for continuous and peak power: a power amp’s output can increase significantly (albeit very briefly) with large transients, which is why the additional headroom of the HP is so helpful for dynamics.

Regardless, if the amp has a master volume knob, the total wattage output is always being controlled by the master volume knob.

 

[MDBass]

Also, I haven’t messed with the different versions Jim offers but they don’t change anything other than the drive channel right? It doesn’t make it a different amp, just changes the character of the dirt? Which reminds me I should try those out. I even bought some thumb drives for it.

It’s more like it changes the preamp entirely: different types of clipping, totally different gain structures, etc.

The BFT circuit was modeled after big clean tube amps, the TS circuit I helped design was modeled after running a Tubescreamer into an Ampeg, and they have a whole mess of fuzzes and other cool options: they’ve even built a preamp circuit that sounds like a B15

 

[pjbassist]

With all do respect, this doesn't make any sense unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say. I think what you mean to say is the gain knob determines your volume/power output as there is no Master volume control which just means the output gain is set to wide open most likely, which means it will amplify what ever level the signal comes in at the same amount. Gain is a multiplication factor. So let's say your output gain is 10. It will multiply your input signal (X) by 10 and your output will be Y=10 x (X). So if the signal coming off your gain stage is 0.25, for example, then your output will be 2.5. If it's 0.5 your output will be 5, etc. Your maximum volume will ultimately be determined by the available output power of your amp. So let's say the max occurs with 10 x (x) = 20, then an input level of 2 will get you to max power of your amp.
Hope this makes sense.

I didn't know there would be a quiz? Check out the big brains on Jim! Just kidding around, when the man himself weighs in, you know you're on to something! Thanks for clearing that up @Jim Bergantino, and thank you for the happy birthday wish last week on Facebook!

 

[5StringPocket]

My $.02: the Forte HP is not too HP. As mentioned, the extra power provides headroom and dynamic range at all volumes which is quite useful and sounds great. With sensible use of the gain and volume knobs, the right amount of power with the desired tone is applied to any connected cabinet. That said, the 112 I use for practice is a 400 watt, 8-ohm cabinet which sounds good. I gig with an 800 watt, 4-ohm cab and this head is very capable at driving another cab if needed. Some common sense is required. I don't think I'd connect a 100-watt mini cab. If all you need is a peanut rig, don't drive it with a sledgehammer. A 100-watt or 350-watt combo is plenty for some folks. Get the right tool for the job. For me, the headroom on tap just fills the room better even at lower volumes.

 

[PotsdamBass8]

In reference to the max watts at all times thing, I think you’re referring to amps with just one volume knob. Any amp with a preamp gain and master volume is going to act the same way.

I believe the HP has a more gradual master knob, meaning slight bumps won’t raise the volume drastically like it might on amps with master knobs that have most of their change in a narrow range. I think that’s a linear vs logarithmic thing, but it’s beyond my brainpower.

I have had this scenario happen exactly one time, and that was practicing in a basement where the drummer had to squeeze by my amp to get behind his drums. I played one note, it sounded ungodly, and I turned it down. I think it’s very rare for that to happen.

 

[husky123]

In reference to the max watts at all times thing, I think you’re referring to amps with just one volume knob. Any amp with a preamp gain and master volume is going to act the same way.

I believe the HP has a more gradual master knob, meaning slight bumps won’t raise the volume drastically like it might on amps with master knobs that have most of their change in a narrow range. I think that’s a linear vs logarithmic thing, but it’s beyond my brainpower.

I have had this scenario happen exactly one time, and that was practicing in a basement where the drummer had to squeeze by my amp to get behind his drums. I played one note, it sounded ungodly, and I turned it down. I think it’s very rare for that to happen.

Correct. We purposefully gave the HP a VERY gradual taper on the master volume to give you much more finite resolution.

*Little known fact: most amps are ‘giving you all she’s got’ when your master is far from wide open at the clock setting. After that point, physics and laws of diminishing returns are kicked in.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I'm sorry, Berg is awesome.

 

[Jim Bergantino]

I'm sorry, Berg is awesome.

No need to apologize. I just wanted to make sure I understood what you were trying to convey and hopefully try to clarify or explain away any confusion or misunderstandings. It’s all good and hopefully some may have learned something from it. Gain structure is often misunderstood but is very important when trying to get the maximum performance and desired tone from ones signal chain.

 

[MikeBass]

Simple answer to the literal subject line of this whole thread:

No.

 

[willsellout]

I’ve owned the amp for about a year now and I learned a couple things from this thread. So it’s a win for me.

 

[57pbass]

I use the HP with a REF 210 and sometimes Two REF210 cabs. Never have any problems since I don’t play at high volume levels. It’s a great head and I wish more builders would do 1200 watt high power heads. They just sound so good.

 

[Jared Lash]

FWIW, I practice with the Forte HP into a single Baer ML112 and have never had an issue.

 

[Thegreatzambini]

I like the firmware idea that you essentially reflash to a new / different amp, but the power it supplies is meant for large cabs. Sure, you can always be careful until that one time that somebody bumps the knobs and "click" goes your cab.

So you’re big worry is that you’re afraid to use a high powered amp in the highly unlikely event that somebody might bump your knobs and then it will blow your speakers??? It’s like being afraid to drive a high horsepower vehicle because you’re worried the gas pedal might stick...