Double Bass Is the EDB-1 the only way to go?

[bribass]

Is the EDB-1 the only way to go for a good live performance mic pre w/ phantom power?

Since I have a 2 channel amp, a pre that is capable of blending is not so important to me, but 48 V phantom power and quality is.

I'm considering one of these;

Golden Age Project Pre 73 Microphone Preamp Invalid Link Removed

Black Lion Audio Auteur Preamp http://www.frontendaudio.com/Black-Lion-Audio-Auteur-Preamp-p/9999-06272.htm

Radial PowerPre Lunchbox Mic Preamp [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

any comments or experiences?

Bri

 

[Ric Vice]

Is the EDB-1 the only way to go for a good live performance mic pre w/ phantom power?

Bribass,
I looked at your profile and you list a AI Focus that already has phantom power correct? You also list a Walter Woods Green Light. I have an Walter Woods Blue Light, it works wonderfully with the Headway. I actually just use the power amp. So I'm not even using Walter's Pre amp. It sounds very nice. The pre amp IMHO is as good as Walter's and that's saying a lot.

Since I have a 2 channel amp, a pre that is capable of blending is not so important to me, but 48 V phantom power and quality is.

You could just get a outboard 48v phantom box. I know ART makes a pretty nice one and it's less than $100.00. That would work with the Walter Woods.

I'm considering one of these;

Golden Age Project Pre 73 Microphone Preamp Invalid Link Removed

Black Lion Audio Auteur Preamp http://www.frontendaudio.com/Black-Lion-Audio-Auteur-Preamp-p/9999-06272.htm

Radial PowerPre Lunchbox Mic Preamp [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

any comments or experiences?

Bri

Those boxes all look very nice, but I couldn't help noticing that the least expensive of the group is the same price as the Headway. None of them have all the features that the Headway does. Being able to set the input impedance at different loads (either 1 or 5 megohms is very nice) is a real plus, it has different settings for the high pass fliter, not as flexible as the Focus mind you, but very workable, a phase reverse, and a lot of other features that those other boxes lack. The only thing it's missing is a two channel EQ.

 

[bribass]

Yes, I mostly use my Focus these days for the power and convenience.

Although nothing sounds as good as Walter's old pre. That's quite an endorsement of the Headway.

Seems you could use the DPA straight into the Focus w/ it's phantom power etc., but the consensus here seems to be that the DPA would have more gain before feedback w/ another pre of some kind.

Ric, what's your opinion on this? I guess the thing to do would be to try it w/ the Focus before shelling out additional $ on a pre.

Anyone using the DPA straight into a Focus or Clarus?

 

[Ric Vice]

Yes, I mostly use my Focus these days for the power and convenience.

QUOTE=bribass;9478219]

Yeah, Walter is done designing amps so we most likely won't ever see a woods with combo jacks, neutrix connectors, lo pass filters and 48v phantom power.

Although nothing sounds as good as Walter's old pre. That's quite an endorsement of the Headway.

Well, putting the Headway into the Woods in front of the pre amp is pretty redundant. When I put it into the return of the effects loop it just makes more sense and frankly sounds very close to Walter's own pre amp.

QUOTE=bribass;9478219]
Seems you could use the DPA straight into the Focus w/ it's phantom power etc., but the consensus here seems to be that the DPA would have more gain before feedback w/ another pre of some kind.[/QUOTE]

I truly don't know about that. Since it's running at spec for the phantom into the Focus you would think that it would sound just great that way. My need for the Headway is simply because I happen to own Walter Woods amps and they don't have phantom, hi pass filters, variable input impedance etc.

Ric, what's your opinion on this? I guess the thing to do would be to try it w/ the Focus before shelling out additional $ on a pre.

Absolutely, try it without the Headway first, if it works and you like the sound then you won't need it. I'm not a fan of little add on boxes, but in my situation I have to have one to power the mic. I'm not using the Notch Filter on the Headway, just the Variable Input Impedance ( my setup with the Realist likes a 5 meg ohm load better than 1 meg ohm.) High Pass Filter only when necessary and the phantom power.

Anyone using the DPA straight into a Focus or Clarus?

 

[bribass]

Here are the AI Focus 2r III input specs from the AI manual. Would the 600 ohm balanced mic input environ be ok for DPA?

The phantom is 38 volts, shy of 48v, but still higher than the EDB-1.

Preamp (Mic and Instrument Inputs through combo jack)

Mic Input - 600 ohm balanced, XLR connector

Phantom Power - 38 volts, on/off switch w/LED indicator

Instrument Input - 1 MW impedance, 1/4 inch jack

Direct Out - +4 dB, balanced, XLR connector, ground lift, pre/post EQ selector

Effects Loop - Parallel type with return level control

I see using the DPA in those situations where I'd like to give the house system just the mic signal and have the pu signal only in my amp as a stage monitor. I find that in small to medium venues (especially theaters w/ good acoustics and sound people) the blend that the audience gets of these 2 sounds (amp from the stage / mic thru the system) is the best for good sound and for avoiding feedback problems of the mic thru the amp. If I'm understanding the manual correctly you can run the Focus in Stereo mode where ch. 2 is OFF to the amp but signal is in the SEND jack which feasibly could be sent to the FOTH via 1/4 ' cable to a DI box. It would be great if I could do this w/o any other 'little boxes'

 

[jrlynch]

here's the real deal with the headway, as far as i'm concerned: it's flexible and you can put it on a small stand so it's at your fingertips.

mine, i pretty much keep flat, play with the hpf ... mix some pickup, if things get loud. run it into the effects return on the amp, keep it clean. but, for me, it's having it all within reach, 'cause i hate dicking with knobs during a gig.

 

[Uncletoad]

I got a Headway in yesterday for audition. I need to put it through more situations but my first impression is it sounds great flat and the EQ does good things. The Headway sounds better right out of the box than any other small preamp I've had including the Fishman Pro Platinum and the Baggs Para DI. It doesn't sound better than the Focus front end IMO. I get better gain before feedback with the Focus front end than the Headway. The Focus has a special sauce with my bass that really sounds great.

So I'm not going to drag this thing around on top of the Focus. More likely I'm keeping it for the gigs where I have no amp, or use borrowed amps or backline.

Mic? Dunno. Haven't tried it yet.

 

[bribass]

It doesn't sound better than the Focus front end IMO. I get better gain before feedback with the Focus front end than the Headway. The Focus has a special sauce with my bass that really sounds great.

Mic? Dunno. Haven't tried it yet.

Thnx Phil, keep us posted on the mic issue

 

[Ric Vice]

Here are the AI Focus 2r III input specs from the AI manual. Would the 600 ohm balanced mic input environ be ok for DPA?

The phantom is 38 volts, shy of 48v, but still higher than the EDB-1.

Preamp (Mic and Instrument Inputs through combo jack)

Mic Input - 600 ohm balanced, XLR connector

Phantom Power - 38 volts, on/off switch w/LED indicator

Instrument Input - 1 MW impedance, 1/4 inch jack

Direct Out - +4 dB, balanced, XLR connector, ground lift, pre/post EQ selector

Effects Loop - Parallel type with return level control

I see using the DPA in those situations where I'd like to give the house system just the mic signal and have the pu signal only in my amp as a stage monitor. I find that in small to medium venues (especially theaters w/ good acoustics and sound people) the blend that the audience gets of these 2 sounds (amp from the stage / mic thru the system) is the best for good sound and for avoiding feedback problems of the mic thru the amp. If I'm understanding the manual correctly you can run the Focus in Stereo mode where ch. 2 is OFF to the amp but signal is in the SEND jack which feasibly could be sent to the FOTH via 1/4 ' cable to a DI box. It would be great if I could do this w/o any other 'little boxes'

Bribass,
I wouldn't rule out trying the mic through the amp as well.
You should try it out before you write off that possibility. As far as the Phantom Voltage issue goes, I'm driving it with a 18 volt phantom and it sounds just fine to my ears IME, IMHO.
It seems like 38 volts would power the DPA as that's the closer to the standard for Phantom Power. I know it's not "spec" are but neither is the Headway. I did a little checking and discovered that they upped the voltage on the Phantom Power to 48 volts when they went to the Series III amps. Interesting. Evidently, the voltage issue with phantom powering has some "wiggle room".

Ric

 

[Uncletoad]

Headway's rep said the following to me:

The DPA folks had a preamp in the works for that 4099 mic and then tried the Headway with it. They liked it so much and the box was so much cheaper than what they were developing they chucked their own box and are recommending the Headway with the DPA. There is some fidelity loss with the lower power supply but not enough to cause issue in live settings.

I don't have a DPA so I dunno what to think of all that.

 

[bolo]

Seems you could use the DPA straight into the Focus w/ it's phantom power etc., but the consensus here seems to be that the DPA would have more gain before feedback w/ another pre of some kind.

Ric, what's your opinion on this? I guess the thing to do would be to try it w/ the Focus before shelling out additional $ on a pre.

Anyone using the DPA straight into a Focus or Clarus?

bribass, I have a Focus 2R III and a DPA (and an M-line and a VL-208). But not the Headway.

I saw a post from Roger Davis stating that he got more usable volume before feedback out of the DPA with the Headway. So I asked him in a PM for clarification. I hope Roger won't mind if I post an edited version of his reply here.

Anyway, it is the squealing mic feedback, the type that comes in suddenly and very loud, that the headway kills. I'm not sure from previous posts whether you have one or not. No matter, I am setting the notch filter at Q Width 1 and Frequency 1.6kHz. If you look at the two knobs, the one on the left is at 9 oclock and the one on the left is at 3 oclock - nice and symmetrical. All the eq controls are level except the low mid and high mid which are backed off a bit but I think this is more for tone. As a further refinement you could also back the treble off a bit. My phase switch is running on reverse which also helps my particular rig. - And that's it. It works very well, but I still add my caveat that mics are really for FOH to get the best possible results.

That said, I have just started using a DPA 4099 into the Focus (no Headway). Prior to that, I've used a Beyer M88 TG for a couple of years. So far I'm getting a little more usable volume before feedback with the DPA than I do with the Beyer. They both make a good sound.

So I do know the DPA into the Focus works. Not sure how much better it would be w/ the Headway.

Hope that helps