Is there a 5 string whose B actually matches the other strings?

[bass12]

THAT is exactly what I'm talking about, but stated much more precisely. I want an E played at the fifth fret of the B string to sound exactly like the open E string.

As already mentioned, that's not a realistic expectation. I've had very good to excellent B strings on my MTD 535s, my Lull M5V (35") and my Status S2 but my 5 with the most consistency from string to string has probably been my Sadowsky Modern (I've found the Sadowsky Jazz 5s have decent B strings, but not great B strings - the Modern has a great B).

 

[jpTron]

Probably been said ad nauseum but lowering the pickup/adjusting the saddle to get that B sitting properly make my B sound nice and clear on both my Warwick and Jazz. They didn't sound that great until I made those changes.

 

[bdplaid]

Don't yamaha do a weird bridge that extends the b string?

No, it moves the ball end further back to lower the break angle over the bridge saddle. Has nothing to do with the sound. And putting washers and other nonsense on the string ball is... nonsense.

 

[peterpalmieri]

THAT is exactly what I'm talking about, but stated much more precisely. I want an E played at the fifth fret of the B string to sound exactly like the open E string. I have yet to hear it on any bass I've tried, but I am fully prepared to accept that I may not get that from a Fender Jazz or clones of it. Everyone knows that bolt on necks can come with issues like dead spots, notes that are much louder than others, etc. I have to think that those problems are compounded when there is a low B added to the instrument.

I haven't had the opportunity to try something high end like a Modulus, but would certainly like to. Then I'll probably have a NEW problem, related to finances

With all due respect, I think you're asking for something that doesn't exist. An A played on the fifth fret of the E string doesn't sound exactly like an open A on any bass I've ever played. Nor does the D on the fifth fret of the A string sound like an open D. That's not string choice or scale length, that's physics.

Now, to your original post, for me, it's always been a bit of a balancing act. As you said in an earlier post, Stingray 5s tend to have a very even sound, string-to-string. I bought mine used and the previous owner had put a Bartolini pickup in it. I never had any complaints about the sound or feel of the B string. I tended to use a 130 with my usual 45-105 set on that bass, which had a 34" scale.

The narrow nut on that bass led me to sell it and I ended up with an Alleva-Copollo 5-string "Jazz" and a custom fretless, built by a friend. The A-C has a 34" scale, and it gets along well with 130 or 128 B strings. The fretless is 35" and I tend to prefer 128 or 125 on that bass. I find the tension is better balanced. In any case, the other four strings are always 45-105.

In both cases, I spent my efforts looking for a string set that felt right to me and had tensions that felt even. Once that was settled, I worked out the B-string kinks through pickup height, preamp adjustments and amp adjustments (and selection), in that order.

Your earlier comment about B-strings never sounding the same as the other strings on other peoples' basses rings true to me and I think much of the problem is that a lot of 5-string players have a tendency to dial in far too much low bass, which makes the B overwhelming and out of proportion to the rest of the strings. It also makes things extremely muddy.

These are just some musings based upon my own experiences and observations, and I hope you find them at least a bit helpful. I gig pretty regularly with both fours and fives and I think my B is pretty even, for the most part (or perhaps I've just gone smell-blind!).

My friend @Lo-E is 100% correct, you are looking for something that doesn't exist.

Tonally the F on the E string sounds different then the F on the B string. Play open D, then play it on the 5th fret of the A string and then the 10th fret on the E string and the 15th fret on the B string. A lot of things come into play the string gauge, the vibrating length of the string, the pickup in relation to the vibrating length of the string.

This is inherent to our instrument and we make position choices accordingly. This has very little to do with string choice, scale length etc. because it is relative.

Let's take another example, play A,B,C on the G string in a nice melodic line. Play that same melodic line up at the octave of the A string. We have all made these decisions in our playing or made assumptions when transposing a recording...To get the desired effect we are looking for.

 

[bdplaid]

Some of the best sounding fivers I have heard were Stingray 5's, so it certainly seems to be possible to get a balanced sounding instrument with a 34" scale.

It is, the higher end makers do it better. IME Pedulla and Brubaker do a great B string in 34" scale. Has a lot to do with the neck, although I'm not sure what. Otherwise, perhaps a Maple finger board, being brighter, helps.

 

[SamPerdisian]

Dingwall. Best B string's I have ever played.

 

[Clark Dark]

This is how I ride:
1 x BH-118

• 1 x BH-090

• 1 x BH-067

• 1 x BH-049

• 1 x BH-035

Kalium hybrid balanced set

 

[God Of Atheism]

As quite a few have already said: the answer is a balanced sets of strings. Most standard sets have a B string with far lower tension than the other strings, no wonder it's hard to get the B to sound similar. Try a Kalium balanced set at the tension you like. Just make sure the total tension is not insanely far off the total tension of what's on your bass now. I haven't tried it, but I'm sure the d'Adario balanced sets are also much better than most regular sets and probably a bit cheaper than the Kalium ones. My experience with the Kalium balanced sets is that it gives the B a very good sound, similar to the other strings, regardless of the bass. Even on a low end Washburn X125 I got suddenly a great tone on all strings.
I'm sure that the longer scale on the fanned fretted basses will help even further, but start with the strings, get a balanced set. Regular bass sets have tension all over the place and could have a use if you want each string to sound like a different instrument, but otherwise not so much. Progressive tension might work even better to make up for the lower aural sensitivity on the lower frequencies, but having to deal with the higher mass to move on the low B when switching to a balanced set is already a bit of an exercise, and switching immediately to even higher tension might not be a good idea.
And then there is the issue of less reproduction of the lower frequencies by the cabinet leading to more loss of the lower harmonics compared to the E string and to compound it the lower aural sensitivity to lower frequencies. Still, start with a balanced set of strings and if that doesn't do enough go change the bass or the cabinet.

 

[bdplaid]

So what I'm gleaning from the discussion so far is that scale is less important than the gauge of the B string, and bigger is better...right?

I typically play 45-15 sets so maybe what I need to do is find a set with a big fat B string, like .130 or more.

Bigger B string feels less flubby, but sounds MORE flubby. Think of a 4-string, with heavier or lighter gauge strings. The lighter the string, the brighter, thinner and less deep the bass sounds. same thing with the B... want it to sound clearer and less deep, then put on a lighter gauge string to accentuate the higher harmonics.

 

[bucephylus]

Ahh, TB...

OP posts that he is playing a Fender Jazz and is looking for an instrument that is similar and has a good B string.

And, of course, based on the B string, players are chirping up that the answer is some 35" scale or multi scale bass. Umm, no. Look, nothing at all wrong with Modulus or whatever. They certainly do have good B strings and are every bit fine instruments in their own right. But, referring to the OP, they are laughably NOT like a Jazz Bass. Not.

It remains a good question. Fender has made the 5 string Jazz for a while now. They have ironed out some of the wrinkles. One answer is to go play a whole bunch of Fender Jazz 5's, and find one that happens to have a decent B string. They are out there. But, IME, that 1 7/8" nut just has never felt "Jazz Bass" to me, even if everything else is right.

Then you've got the MusicMan 5's. No, they aren't Jazz Basses. But, that 1 3/4" neck and very focused B string check off a lot of my "Jazz Bass" boxes. IF you can find a light one. Probably the nicest production 5 out there that I have gigged.

If you have a bit more budget, then a Sadowsky, Lull, or Coppolo will definitely scratch the Jazz Bass itch, especially if you can get one with the 1 3/4" nut. They may be out there; but I have never played one of those with a poor B string. There are also the Xotic and Fodera NY designs; check out Jamareo Artis' sound on the SNL rendition of Uptown Funk on YouTube. If that ain't happenin' I don't know what is.

A bit further afield, the Zon Sonus has some Jazz Bass derivative design elements. It's neck produces an impressive B string.

There is a lot of subtle stuff that goes into a good B. Both bridge saddle and nut witness points are important, especially the bridge. Just one aspect is that compensation for string diameter with the other strings at the bridge required the B saddle to be driven much closer to the tail piece hold, resulting in a more severe angle for the thick B string. That higher angle for thicker string causes relatively more permanent deformation in the hardened steel core of the string. The severity of the witness point, knife edge vs rounded, is a further factor. All of which have consequences for the elastic vibration quality of the string. This is one aspect that is mainly ignored when comparing different scale lengths, because these kinds of details are also variable. So, the comparison is generally convoluted with several things not being the same between the instruments. Anyhow, the higher end builders tend to work all of this out for the player. We just talk about it as though we know what's going on. Unless one builds the instrument and struggles through all the details, you don't.

But, it's fun to talk about it.

 

[Sam Dingle]

In what seems to be an annual event, I have a string of gigs where a 5 string bass would make a lot of sense and save me from jumping all over the fretboard with my 4 string Jazz Basses. So then I start looking around at fivers and always come to the same conclusion: I love the versatility of them, but I just HATE the sound of that B string. It never matches the other 4 strings and to my ears it just doesn't sound natural. It's always so much boomier and massive sounding compared to the higher strings.

I have owned a number of fivers, among them: Lakland 55-01 and 55-02, Carvin Bunny Brunel, and an older model Fender Jazz 5. I have also experimented with different strings to see if that could balance things out, but no luck to date. I always end up dumping them.

I'm a Jazz Bass guy, so that makes the most sense for me, but is there a bass out there that truly gets the balance thing right? Is it a scale thing, like 34 vs 35", or an active vs passive thing? Are there strings that will make that B blend better with the others?

Looking for guidance from my TB brothers!

I'm by no stretch of the word a prominent electric player. The gigs I do are all in my original band as well as the occasional musical gig where I have to be in the pit. My true calling right now is upright.

That being said I like to have my options open and when I got into a situation like yours (NEEDED a 5 string for a musical) I went ahead and bought a Spector Euro Bass. Now it did fine for the show but compared to my american fender jazz 4 it sounded too modern and the B string always sounded not fully balanced to me. It was 10 times better than the Schecter I had before but not perfect

I sold that bass and bought what I was hoping would do the trick. I got a Sadowsky Metro 5 string bass. That is what a B string should sound like. The bass sounds amazing but the difference between the B string and the E is, for the most part mental, meaning I prefer to play the E open than fretted. I don't know what they do but its working.

Full disclosure. There has been talk on this thread about the string gauges and that affect. I have been told that on this bass I have D'addario prosteels. They are nickel wound I believe but the important thing is that the gauges are:

45. 65 85 105 135.

This may make a big difference. I'll be putting on a set of DR high beams with the same setup EXCEPT the B is a 125. If that drastically changes the sound I'll let you know. Even if it is the strings that make it better, the Sadowsky was the right choice for me because it is my american fender, in a 5 string, but without that Fender Low B which I've never gotten to work. I can post a video here for you if you want.

 

[bdplaid]

You know that commercial where they basically say your house smells but you have gone "nose blind" to it? I have had numerous encounters with bassists who tell me about the killer B string on their basses, then they play it and the B string SOUNDS NOTHING LIKE THE OTHER 4 STRINGS. It sounds GOOD, but it definitely doesn't sound the SAME as the E, A, D, and G strings. It's like a totally different instrument when they drop that low B.

Exactly. I hear it and hate it. And I've been playing 5's for over 20 years. Fought with it that long, too. Pianos don't do this, and I wonder if it has something to do with their string design, which I believe puts the core of the string over what is a "bridge" in that instrument?

You'be got me thinking about something I might try: A B string of an exposed core string in a relatively light gauge (.120 or ,125, probably the latter), of the same brand and as close to that brand's regular wound string's model as possible.

The guy to ask about this is Jason from @bassstringsonline.

 

[engedi1]

I have found that graphite necked basses have the clearest B strings, that sounds more like the E string just lower. My zon is like this, and modulus basses I have had in the past are like this. I haven't used a dingwall but I hear this about them as well.

 

[bucephylus]

You ought to try this tuning I picked up from Joni Mitchell: CGDGBE

Just as long as the pickups are Jazz Bass shaped all is good. You know the thread I am referring to..........

LOL. Glad to see everyone has a sense of humor this morning!

 

[k31bassman]

I disagree. Two of my BEAD basses are 34" scale, and one is 33.25" scale. A good low B isn't hard to get at all.

What strings do you use?

 

[Ant Illington]

Hmmm...I'm going to throw something out that five string lovers will find inflammatory It's not meant to be though.

You know that commercial where they basically say your house smells but you have gone "nose blind" to it? I have had numerous encounters with bassists who tell me about the killer B string on their basses, then they play it and the B string SOUNDS NOTHING LIKE THE OTHER 4 STRINGS. It sounds GOOD, but it definitely doesn't sound the SAME as the E, A, D, and G strings. It's like a totally different instrument when they drop that low B.

They don't hear it though. I think you get accustomed to that huge frequency drop and after a while it sounds normal to you.

I want a great sounding B of course, but that's never been the issue for me. I'm trying to get to where I can move between the A, E, and B strings and it all sounds balanced and blended. I guess I need to find a 5 string that feels really good to me and then experiment a lot more with strings.

I really appreciate all the feedback here, very helpful.

I know that you gave a caveat that kinda covered your butt but you REALLY do start to come across here exactly as your avatar pic says you will.

Also, you want the 5th fret B to sound like open E? Good luck. According to many threads on TB, that doesn't even occur between the other strings, certainly you notice that, right? I think that either position is generally good enough when passing through the neighborhood.

Once you have spent the time you need to spend on technique, you'll be able to make any B sound good.

My caveat: I rarely need to play the B string but any mid-range priced 5 has worked. Also, there is no shortage of awesome 5 string bass players who can do it on anything. You can be them, just spend more time in development.

 

[iiipopes]

Yes, the problem is that there is significantly more mass, and the string, due to the crown radius of the fretboard, is closer to the pickup than the E,A,D strings. This makes the string less flexible, and since response of the pickup varies as the square of the distance from the pickup, these factors all make a B string boomy.

I don't need the low B note, although with what my party band plays, I do need the C, D and Eb. So I choose a string a gauge or two lighter, and tune B to C, have a bass with a rather flat fingerboard, and raise the B string saddle a little bit more than the arc would otherwise indicate. This keeps the bass with a B string as flexible as possible to have more consistent tonality, and since it is lighter gauge, it has the same feel when fretting it due to the slightly increased height of the saddle even though it has slightly less tension, and therefore, being farther away from the pickup, a more even response string-to-string.

 

[pbass2]

I haven't read the entire thread, but, one word: Dingwall.

 

[Bassmann79]

Glad that it works for you, but for me, a 130 never balanced well with a 105.

Agreed, I use 125 for that very reason

 

[Honch]

In what seems to be an annual event, I have a string of gigs where a 5 string bass would make a lot of sense and save me from jumping all over the fretboard with my 4 string Jazz Basses. So then I start looking around at fivers and always come to the same conclusion: I love the versatility of them, but I just HATE the sound of that B string. It never matches the other 4 strings and to my ears it just doesn't sound natural. It's always so much boomier and massive sounding compared to the higher strings.

I have owned a number of fivers, among them: Lakland 55-01 and 55-02, Carvin Bunny Brunel, and an older model Fender Jazz 5. I have also experimented with different strings to see if that could balance things out, but no luck to date. I always end up dumping them.

I'm a Jazz Bass guy, so that makes the most sense for me, but is there a bass out there that truly gets the balance thing right? Is it a scale thing, like 34 vs 35", or an active vs passive thing? Are there strings that will make that B blend better with the others?

Looking for guidance from my TB brothers!

You seem to have not be aware of any fanned frets basses which uses multi-scale. Your incentive is exactly what caught Sheldon Dingwalls mind too. If you haven't heard of Dingwall as of yet, in spite of you looking for Lakland, Carvin, Fender et al, you must have been living under a rock. And no, Dingwall basses are not the only ones, and they are not holding patent on fanned frets. LTD, Rondo/Brice and especially Ibanez has been jumping on the wagon, and in the case of LTD, you can try their one scale counterparts and compare them to their multiscale 5 string low B basses, and they are not as expemsive as the posh Dingwalls. The problem you have heard and detected with all basses, is exactly the reason (and more often than not the only reason) fanned fret (multiscale) basses are around. And they are coming around in more and more variants as we speak:

They work for all strings alike, and evens out the balance the natural way, on all basses of this nature. Dingwall makes "Fender J and P" basses with a mild fanned fret going from 32 inch to 35. As far as I can tell, this is the only solution to YOUR specific problem, and you should not continue search before you've tried these ones out. If you think yourself of a grand piano, the strings aren't becoming just fatter in gauge as you drop pitch, you have to increase length too. It's the natural way to fix problems like you're having. Don't hunt down equal tension strings from Kalium strings and so on, it's a diminishing return.