The best string to string balance on a 5 string that I've run across is the PRS Grainger 5 string. I have some other very good 5 strings, but the Grainger takes the prize for string to string balance.
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THAT is exactly what I'm talking about, but stated much more precisely. I want an E played at the fifth fret of the B string to sound exactly like the open E string. I have yet to hear it on any bass I've tried, but I am fully prepared to accept that I may not get that from a Fender Jazz or clones of it. Everyone knows that bolt on necks can come with issues like dead spots, notes that are much louder than others, etc. I have to think that those problems are compounded when there is a low B added to the instrument.
I haven't had the opportunity to try something high end like a Modulus, but would certainly like to. Then I'll probably have a NEW problem, related to finances
To me, it is the player ... B strings need more finess, a different attack. You can't play that strings in whatever fashion and expect the same result as on the E strings.
To what Clef_da_fe said:
I have seen this too many times. You can't beat up the 5th string like the 4th string. It will sound TERRIBLE if you do so. More finesse is going to result in a less boomy tone, more punch, and a better sounding note. As to all of the posts regarding string gauges, that also plays a big part and should be looked into. Your technique and the particular bass you use will determine what string type/gauge works best for you.
I have seen this too many times. You can't beat up the 5th string like the 4th string. It will sound TERRIBLE if you do so. More finesse is going to result in a less boomy tone, more punch, and a better sounding note. As to all of the posts regarding string gauges, that also plays a big part and should be looked into. Your technique and the particular bass you use will determine what string type/gauge works best for you.
Yeah, personally if I have to go to something like a 36" scale or fanned frets that's a deal breaker for me. I play with a lot of old school acts and even bringing something that doesn't say Fender on the headstock (like my beloved Lakland 44-01's) arouses suspicion
I know you've mentioned that fanned frets are a deal breaker, but the long scale Dingwalls (34" - 37") have the best sounding B-string and best balance across the range that I have played. Maybe you just need one in a traditional sunburst or something.
What seems to be a little imbalance between the strings and lower to higher range notes in headphones or at a jam, can really get accentuated in a live environment. I have experienced basses that many consider to have great B-strings, not sounding great in a live situation (both as a player and spectator).
Pedulla strings seem to be quite even across the board. the B sounds as much like the other strings as Is physically possible for a fatter string.
Nobody tell the Internet though
Nobody tell the Internet though
I think scale can certainly help with inexpensive basses. For example my ESP 5 is 35" scale and has a really nice low b considering its like a $800 bass. A lot of nicer basses don't need a long scale though. I've had 4 warwicks and 3 musicman 5 strings that were all 34" scale and had a good low B. I think a lot of getting a good low B tone is more than just the bass itself. The strings you use, the amp you use, even how the bass is setup, all of that comes into play. I tend to use .125 low b strings. They are less boomy and more articulate IMO. When playing with a low b your amps settings should be more about clarity, try to get your tone from your choice of strings and how you attack the strings instead of turning eq knobs. For example a lot of people are used to boosting lows with a 4 string and doing the same with a low b can get super muddy fast.
A few of my early attempts in using a B-string were not fruitful, precisely for the reason cited by the OP.
Eventually I found my way to Sadowsky and Alembic. These were the first basses I tried that that truly felt that the B string was a natural extension of the other strings.
Since then I've tried out many other brands that implement B-strings quite well. My personal theory is you need a bass that does not absorb the mechanical energy of the B string. In other words all of the activating motion that comes from a pick or fingers needs to go into the string and not into the neck, nut, or bridge. Certain construction techniques lend themselves to this.
I also think that setup, bridge height, pickup height, and whether there's torsion in the string once it's mounted are all more critical with B strings.
I do not believe that a particular scale length or fanned frets are required. After all, [Invalid or Expired Link Removed], and there is is ample sonic and video evidence that these sound great throughout the neck and string.
I suspect that longer scale lengths do add physical properties that mitigate the common sonic limitations associated with B-strings.
Before I would conclude that a bass does not have a good B, I'd check the setup, pickup height, and even try different strings, for example, tapered or bare core.
Eventually I found my way to Sadowsky and Alembic. These were the first basses I tried that that truly felt that the B string was a natural extension of the other strings.
Since then I've tried out many other brands that implement B-strings quite well. My personal theory is you need a bass that does not absorb the mechanical energy of the B string. In other words all of the activating motion that comes from a pick or fingers needs to go into the string and not into the neck, nut, or bridge. Certain construction techniques lend themselves to this.
I also think that setup, bridge height, pickup height, and whether there's torsion in the string once it's mounted are all more critical with B strings.
I do not believe that a particular scale length or fanned frets are required. After all, [Invalid or Expired Link Removed], and there is is ample sonic and video evidence that these sound great throughout the neck and string.
I suspect that longer scale lengths do add physical properties that mitigate the common sonic limitations associated with B-strings.
Before I would conclude that a bass does not have a good B, I'd check the setup, pickup height, and even try different strings, for example, tapered or bare core.
I've found that I can indeed beat the hell out of the B on my fretless 5 Stingray including slapping it as hard as humanly possible and it still sounds great and "even" with the other strings. But I definitely can't fully slay the B on my Stingray fretted 5! The B on that one needs much more attention payed to it's own nuances with the frets there. I'm guessing I could still get the setup more optimized for the B string and other string types/gauges could also potentially change things a bit. But I've resigned to thinking that my own B string issues with the fretted 5 lie mostly with my own playing technique.
Also, one of my best friends is an excellent bass player and he's never made a complaint about the B on my fretted stingray. When I've had him play it live for me at a gig it didn't sound uneven in the slightest at performance volumes and sitting in a mix.
Also, one of my best friends is an excellent bass player and he's never made a complaint about the B on my fretted stingray. When I've had him play it live for me at a gig it didn't sound uneven in the slightest at performance volumes and sitting in a mix.
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Three things I've found helpful in getting the B string to sound consistent with the other four:
1. Take extra care to avoid the dreaded "twisted string" when putting on a new set. Definitely let the ball end rotate as you wind the string up with the tuning peg, so there's no pent-up torque in it as it comes up to pitch. That's important for all the strings, but it seems to make the most difference in the thicker strings.
2. Take a minute to set a witness point at both the nut and the bridge saddle, after the string is at pitch.
3. Put an adjustable HPF in front of the amp. I like Fdeck's HPF-3, but there are others. Raise the cutoff freq on the HPF to where the B string sounds the same "size" as the E.
1. Take extra care to avoid the dreaded "twisted string" when putting on a new set. Definitely let the ball end rotate as you wind the string up with the tuning peg, so there's no pent-up torque in it as it comes up to pitch. That's important for all the strings, but it seems to make the most difference in the thicker strings.
2. Take a minute to set a witness point at both the nut and the bridge saddle, after the string is at pitch.
3. Put an adjustable HPF in front of the amp. I like Fdeck's HPF-3, but there are others. Raise the cutoff freq on the HPF to where the B string sounds the same "size" as the E.
Of course technique CAN effect the sound, but most B strings also just don't sound like the other strings. I've found Kalium balanced tension to be the best. I wish I could get even close with another cheaper string, but the Kalium low strings sound so good and so close to the other strings. I use them on my standard tuned 5 string, and my drop C 4 strings. All 34" scale. They do last a long time too. I beat the crap out of my drop C basses, and they're still bright for a while. Seriously, before you buy or sell another piece of gear, just give the Kaliums a try.
Hmm... Smith, Mayones, pre-Gib Tobias, MTD 534, G&L L2500 or M2500, Sadowsky, Pedulla... Just a few 34" scale basses with fantastic balanced B strings. I don't buy the 35"+ only argument. Yes I've owned several Roscoe's, Spector's and Dingwalls so I say that with hands on experience. Setup, build, string selection, preamp config and how you attack the string have a lot to do with it.
With all due respect, I think you're asking for something that doesn't exist. An A played on the fifth fret of the E string doesn't sound exactly like an open A on any bass I've ever played. Nor does the D on the fifth fret of the A string sound like an open D. That's not string choice or scale length, that's physics.
Now, to your original post, for me, it's always been a bit of a balancing act. As you said in an earlier post, Stingray 5s tend to have a very even sound, string-to-string. I bought mine used and the previous owner had put a Bartolini pickup in it. I never had any complaints about the sound or feel of the B string. I tended to use a 130 with my usual 45-105 set on that bass, which had a 34" scale.
The narrow nut on that bass led me to sell it and I ended up with an Alleva-Copollo 5-string "Jazz" and a custom fretless, built by a friend. The A-C has a 34" scale, and it gets along well with 130 or 128 B strings. The fretless is 35" and I tend to prefer 128 or 125 on that bass. I find the tension is better balanced. In any case, the other four strings are always 45-105.
In both cases, I spent my efforts looking for a string set that felt right to me and had tensions that felt even. Once that was settled, I worked out the B-string kinks through pickup height, preamp adjustments and amp adjustments (and selection), in that order.
Your earlier comment about B-strings never sounding the same as the other strings on other peoples' basses rings true to me and I think much of the problem is that a lot of 5-string players have a tendency to dial in far too much low bass, which makes the B overwhelming and out of proportion to the rest of the strings. It also makes things extremely muddy.
These are just some musings based upon my own experiences and observations, and I hope you find them at least a bit helpful. I gig pretty regularly with both fours and fives and I think my B is pretty even, for the most part (or perhaps I've just gone smell-blind!).
I like 4-strings better. They're more comfortable for me, and some of the basses I like don't come in 5s, or I don't like the 5-string version.
As well, I find that I basically never need the high G string in the same musical situation that I'd need the low B. So the extra string would just get in the way.
Could just as easily ask you why you don't play 6 or 7 strings.
My 4-strings sound great in BEAD, so why change? They're basses that I already know I like, and can switch back to EADG if I find I'm not using them for the low B (though currently I use them often, for a couple of my lower tuned bands).
Exactly.
I use .130 .100 .80 .60 for my low tuned basses.
Yeah, for whatever reason, people are complaining about mushy low Bs on here all the time. Meanwhile, I have a Peavey, an Epiphone, and a Rickenbacker that all have great low Bs, and they're all 4-strings.
Probably the most even string to string bass I have is my 4003S. And it has a low B, which sounds as growly and aggressive as the E or A strings, and no more different than the rest of the strings are from each other.Hmmm...I'm going to throw something out that five string lovers will find inflammatory
You know that commercial where they basically say your house smells but you have gone "nose blind" to it? I have had numerous encounters with bassists who tell me about the killer B string on their basses, then they play it and the B string SOUNDS NOTHING LIKE THE OTHER 4 STRINGS. It sounds GOOD, but it definitely doesn't sound the SAME as the E, A, D, and G strings. It's like a totally different instrument when they drop that low B.
They don't hear it though. I think you get accustomed to that huge frequency drop and after a while it sounds normal to you.
I want a great sounding B of course, but that's never been the issue for me. I'm trying to get to where I can move between the A, E, and B strings and it all sounds balanced and blended. I guess I need to find a 5 string that feels really good to me and then experiment a lot more with strings.
I really appreciate all the feedback here, very helpful.
I disagree. I smack the hell out of my low Bs and they sound good.
Don't call my bass sound terrible.
The best low B I've ever heard is the Dingwall Z3 (I'm certain that they have other models that are designed with the same bridge and string length). I'd love to have one, but I don't have any more room in my closet!
Sartori - I was not intending to call your bass tone terrible, just the tendency for the B string to sound not so great when you really lay into it. Many basses are like this, but obviously you are not having that issue. I am going to guess your technique is much different than mine. Plus, I play Spectors all the time and I am quite biased on this issue since I despise playing many other basses. Perhaps the way I play just makes other basses sound terrible to me.
Ric5
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- Jan 29, 2008
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