Is There A Future For Tube Amps?

[BurningSkies]

If it were so simple as to just be distortion, then tube emulation that really sounds like the real thing would already be accomplished.

So often, especially on TB 'tubes' are reduced to a distortion device. Which is sad. Tubes have so much more going on in the feel, the way they sculpt the note envelope; how they control the dynamics; and a certain specific tonal richness in the 'harmonic' distortion/structure that doesn't involve audible distortion at all. I love what tubes do, I just don't want any grind/breakup/grit/dirt or any other one dimensional reductionist descriptor of choice we hear around here. I often feel like people are missing most of the picture and see tubes as a one-trick pony for break up.

 

[Jeff Scott]

So often, especially on TB 'tubes' are reduced to a distortion device. Which is sad. Tubes have so much more going on in the feel, the way they sculpt the note envelope; how they control the dynamics; and a certain specific tonal richness in the 'harmonic' distortion/structure that doesn't involve audible distortion at all. I love what tubes do, I just don't want any grind/breakup/grit/dirt or any other one dimensional reductionist descriptor of choice we hear around here. I often feel like people are missing most of the picture and see tubes as a one-trick pony for break up.

Absolutely. That is why there are companies like Audio Research and Conrad-Johnson, to name only two.

 

[fdeck]

Summary of terms describing tube sound, collected from TB threads, with some editorial license taken:

Organic
Dimensional
Delay
Dynamics
Interactive
Juicy
Round
Fat
Deep
Full
Tubey
Touch sensitivity
Grit
Growl
Vocal
Breathing
Warmth
Richness
Harmonic complexity
Presence
Character
Attack
Tactile
Slow
Added 4/27/16: Fast
Added 4/27/16: Heft

Summary of car analogies

Tubes are like cars in this way, but solid state is like cars in that way
One thing is like torque, and another thing is like horsepower

Summary of guilt trips

You are a wimp for not humping an 85 pound amp
You might not be able to fix your amp if it breaks

Summary of slogans

Just get a tube amp, tubes rule, hahaha
The audience can hear the difference
The audience can’t hear the difference, but can feel the difference
Big amps just look better on stage
Don’t listen with your eyes

Summary of technical explanations

It's the distortion
It's not the distortion
It's the output transformer
It's the preamp
It's the power amp
It's the power supply
It’s those two diodes

Summary of reliability

Tube amps are more reliable if you keep them maintained
Tube amps are more repairable
Tube replacement is a myth propagated by haters
Tube replacement is a myth propagated by repairmen
You should try changing your tubes
You should not try changing your tubes

Summary of solid state players

Haters
Wimps
Uninformed
Digital
Modern
Lazy

Summary of summaries

Are we having this thread again?

 

[JimmyM]

Summary of terms describing tube sound, collected from TB threads, with some editorial license taken:

Organic
Dimensional
Delay
Dynamics
Interactive
Juicy
Round
Fat
Deep
Full
Tubey
Touch sensitivity
Grit
Growl
Vocal
Breathing
Warmth
Richness
Harmonic complexity
Presence
Character
Attack
Tactile
Slow

Summary of car analogies

Tubes are like cars in this way, but solid state is like cars in that way
One thing is like torque, and another thing is like horsepower

Summary of guilt trips

You are a wimp for not humping an 85 pound amp
You might not be able to fix your amp if it breaks

Summary of slogans

Just get a tube amp, tubes rule, hahaha
The audience can hear the difference
The audience can’t hear the difference, but can feel the difference
Big amps just look better on stage
Don’t listen with your eyes

Summary of technical explanations

It's the distortion
It's not the distortion
It's the output transformer
It's the preamp
It's the power amp
It's the power supply
It’s those two diodes

Summary of reliability

Tube amps are more reliable if you keep them maintained
Tube amps are more repairable
Tube replacement is a myth propagated by haters
Tube replacement is a myth propagated by repairmen
You should try changing your tubes
You should not try changing your tubes

Summary of solid state players

Haters
Wimps
Uninformed
Digital
Modern
Lazy

Summary of summaries

Are we having this thread again?

You phrase it like it's a bad thing!

 

[xk49w]

.... Are we having this thread again? ...

Tedious but doable. BTW you left out "chewy".

 

[fdeck]

Tedious but doable. BTW you left out "chewy".

Updating my list could be a whole nother thread!

 

[FFTT]

The demand for tubes is there, from all the builders mentioned and, the big logos and from the audiophile crowd.

Demand drives commerce.

Screaming bloody murder drives improvement.

 

[seamonkey]

Tubes use tungsten filaments and now that tungsten light bulbs are banned in many places tubes won't get a cheap tungsten ride anymore.

US does have such a fabulous relation with Russia so there will never be any problems getting tubes from them. JSC Svetlana Winged C is probably real sad they stopped making audio tubes.

The most polluted country in the world, China is glad to absorb the environmental impact as it just disappears in the noise. California is OK with 10% of their air pollution coming from China.

Just like archiving music with electronic medium. Amp sounds, pre-amps are being archived with modeling. Solid state amps also modeled. Modeling can also do things that never existed, that's where the new sounds are going to come from. It cheap enough that start-up bands can afford it and they'll come out of the woodwork and hit the big time - like what's happening now. And they will stick with what they know. Like many tube amp players did.

 

[FFTT]

You just need a really accurate 3D printer that can do Mullards, RCA, Telefunken, Sylvania

 

[rodl2005]

My reasons for not gigging my Sunn 300T is irrelevant. The discussion is what the market for Tube Amps is going to look like with technology getting closer to emulating the Tube tone in the coming years.

Whilst others may not be experiencing it in the States there has been a considerable drop in tube amps here in Australia, both by players and retailers.

I'm seeing more lately than 10-15 yrs ago. Literally none then. Now SVT's .... Fender Super Bassman, 100T. . V4B RI.....ORANGE AD200 back in the early 90s I was the ONLY one in my area with an all tube amp that was used gigging. Now I now see many.

 

[Sputnik Monroe]

I can see a trend for maybe getting back into 100 watt class tube amps ... With more sane stage volumes, brought on by more and better FOH setups amps like the V4B into the matching 2x12 makes some sense in the present day world. After years of using micros and neos I have made a slight return to an all tube rig for certain select gigs. I can't see ever going back to them as a full time thing, and personally have no interest in hauling the big tube classic rigs around ... Smaller, lighter, and cheaper dollar per watt is where I see the mainstream of bass rigs going.

 

[TheCouchBassist]

Here's a question.......outside of working musicians (of whom I am not one) how many of us would truly be able to tell the difference between a good solid state amp and a tube amp? Please know, I'm not talking about the feeling of standing in front of an 8x10 SVT cabinet, but rather the tone, touch sensitivity etc. I ask as I wonder how much of the "tube = tone" mantra is the product of hobby players like me reading all of these types of TB forums (similar to the pre-CBS vs. post CBS discussion which has been beaten to death).

 

[BurningSkies]

Tubes use tungsten filaments and now that tungsten light bulbs are banned in many places tubes won't get a cheap tungsten ride anymore.

US does have such a fabulous relation with Russia so there will never be any problems getting tubes from them. JSC Svetlana Winged C is probably real sad they stopped making audio tubes.

The most polluted country in the world, China is glad to absorb the environmental impact as it just disappears in the noise. California is OK with 10% of their air pollution coming from China.

Just like archiving music with electronic medium. Amp sounds, pre-amps are being archived with modeling. Solid state amps also modeled. Modeling can also do things that never existed, that's where the new sounds are going to come from. It cheap enough that start-up bands can afford it and they'll come out of the woodwork and hit the big time - like what's happening now. And they will stick with what they know. Like many tube amp players did.

I know you espouse a specific viewpoint (regularly and ad nauseam), but many of us find the sound of emulation and modeling to be unsatisfying. Sorry. Its like buying a kit car...Looks like a Ferrari, but it's a Honda on the inside and in performance.

We can be the China environmental police, but then you'll have to stop buying ALL electronics not just tubes. And probably most of the common household goods that nearly every American has in and around their homes.

 

[fdeck]

Here's a question.......outside of working musicians (of whom I am not one) how many of us would truly be able to tell the difference between a good solid state amp and a tube amp? Please know, I'm not talking about the feeling of standing in front of an 8x10 SVT cabinet, but rather the tone, touch sensitivity etc. I ask as I wonder how much of the "tube = tone" mantra is the product of hobby players like me reading all of these types of TB forums (similar to the pre-CBS vs. post CBS discussion which has been beaten to death).

Even counting working musicians, the answer is: It can't be known. There's no widely agreed upon way of finding out. You just have to figure out what criteria make sense to you, and forge ahead with confidence. For me, it's not a matter of who can tell the difference, but how good I sound on stage with the gear that I use. If somebody thinks a different amp / speaker (or even different knob settings) would sound different, they may be right, but I've made my choice, and will continue experimenting on my own terms.

 

[cchorney]

"Is There A Future For Tube Amps?" This question has been asked over and over since the invention of the transistor, and yet, they are still here. This question will be asked again and again. Tubes are dead, long live tubes.

..be it dead or alive!

 

[peterpalmieri]

Whenever we as musicians break things down to "Can the audience notice in a live setting" we are setting the bar way to low. Along with that, if there is so much gear dedicated to attempting to emulate the sound of tubes that speaks volumes and sets it as a gold standard.

 

[FFTT]

Sadly a trend here, if you dare mention tubes or tube amps or have the hubris to suggest that a good tube amp
sounds superior to solid state, the solid state fans come out of the woodwork to derail the thread.

If you only think in terms of big logos, then there isn't much out there, but there are way plenty custom builds available
to the point where if you can dream it, someone can build it.

 

[peterpalmieri]

Sadly a trend here, if you dare mention tubes or tube amps or have the hubris to suggest that a good tube amp
sounds superior to solid state, the solid state fans come out of the woodwork to derail the thread.

If you only think in terms of big logos, then there isn't much out there, but there are way plenty custom builds available
to the point where if you can dream it, someone can build it.

I'm a tube fan but I think for you to say tube amps "sound superior" is wrong and will rightfully bother people. We all have our preferences

 

[BurningSkies]

I'm a tube fan but I think for you to say tube amps "sound superior" is wrong and will rightfully bother people. We all have our preferences

I love tubes and it still bothers me. There never is an 'only answer'. We have a few people in this thread and on the Amps forum who regularly believe that their answer is the only one. Too many variables in everyone's situation for there not to be options.

 

[beans-on-toast]

I wonder how many tube amp owners hoard tubes so that they won't run out in the future? Buying a lifetime supply is a good idea but expensive.

Some tubes are readily available but you never know. Look what happened to Winged -C- 6550's. One day they are available, next thing you know, they aren't.

What happens when Mike Matthews croaks, he's no spring chicken!