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Is There A Future For Tube Amps?

#121
GENIUS
ALL mosfet and Class D fans....... Here's an idea for a cheap powerful amp, just make a nice enclosure and fit it all inside, but some patch cables to plug em together. Will work off a battery too :thumbsup:

650w power amp @ 4 ohms - 1500w rms @2 ohms wow :wacky: (seriously though this ones a bit crap) better ones for around the 100 mark
Invalid Link Removed as pre-amp with all the other bells and whistles a pod brings
Power suply lots of PC ones about at 600- 800w to get to 12v

less than 200 UK pounds so less than 150 Dollars. :hyper:
 
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#122
In the late 60's and into the 70's they were saying that tubes were finished and transistor amps were the future. Recording studios dumped a lot of their tube equipment. They regretted it. But they stuck with transistor consoles and recorders. That was partly maintenance related, partly because of the desire to have larger consoles with more inputs and features. It was about efficiency which wins out over quality.

Tube based outboard gear and mics are still an important part of the recording process. Those that can afford it still record with vintage equipment.

Marketing convinced people to shift the the latest stuff. That's still happening today. A lot of musicians knew better back then and held onto their tube gear. Today they are still demanding tube equipment.
 
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#126
Captain Chaos said:
Never really bother getting a tube amp until I bought a small orange guitar amp. It sounds so good I'm saving money for a tube bass amp.
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Now guitar amps are a whole different ball game. There aren't many ways to fake the OD or distortion channels of a Mesa or Marshall, you pretty much need tubes there, so I understand it for them.
For bass I'm not as sold on the idea.
 
#128
Neon Blues said:
Don't get me wrong guys. Nothing I've played compares to the tone of my Sunn 300 and 215 Cabinet.

But particularly in Australia. I can't even remember the last Tube amp I saw live. It's always GK's, SVT7's, Hartke's, lots of Eden's and Aguilar's at the moment.

More particularly, I am seeing more Blues and Classic Rock using Solid State where historically I have found are usually flooded with Tubes.
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A lot of the amps you mentioned had tube preamps, which will give you that "tube sound". 12ax7 tubes are small, lightweight and inexpensive; 6550 or 6L6 tubes in the power stage however aren't. I'm totally fine with the idea of a tube pre, but I'd have to be making a lot more money at being a musician to validate the money and effort for a hybrid head that has the same power as my Shuttle 9.0.
 
#130
TheCouchBassist said:
I was thinking of something a bit more affordable. There are so many affordable all tube guitar amps I wonder why the few bass ones seem to be $2,000 or more. Is it really that much more expensive to build an all tube bass combo?
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I think the major difference is a guitarist can use 15w Tube amps, a Bassist can't. I have gigged a Little Bastard into a Mesa 212 but even that was maxing out for a smallish gig.

A bassist really needs 100W of Tube goodness. Hence half the issue.

socialleper said:
A lot of the amps you mentioned had tube preamps, which will give you that "tube sound". 12ax7 tubes are small, lightweight and inexpensive; 6550 or 6L6 tubes in the power stage however aren't. I'm totally fine with the idea of a tube pre, but I'd have to be making a lot more money at being a musician to validate the money and effort for a hybrid head that has the same power as my Shuttle 9.0.
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This is exactly my point. Where I am, there are so many players swapping there All-Tube monsters for Hybrid's and SS with a DI/Pre-amp with a tube such as a Carl Martin Bass Drive or EBS Valve Drive and as a result I rarely see a Tube amp anymore.
 
#131
Just because you have a number of reasons why tube amps are passé doesnt mean the next has the same beliefs

I own three amps. One of these is a Mesa Prodigy. It's the best of the three. Not the lightest, not the most practical, not the least expensive. I have no regrets owning it and take pride in "dragging" to gigs and setting it up. Can't beat tubes.
 
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#132
My reasons for not gigging my Sunn 300T is irrelevant. The discussion is what the market for Tube Amps is going to look like with technology getting closer to emulating the Tube tone in the coming years.

Whilst others may not be experiencing it in the States there has been a considerable drop in tube amps here in Australia, both by players and retailers.
 
#134
JimmyM said:
I see more tube bass amps these days on stages than I have in probably any other time in history.
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Interesting, Jimmy, since I don't go to that many concerts, I'm a little out of the loop. What I will say is that, currently it's easier to source parts and repair techs for a Ampeg B-15, than it is for my Walter Woods. It's highly
likely that the B-15 will be able to be repaired, when the Woods will not.

Ric
 
#135
TheCouchBassist said:
I was thinking of something a bit more affordable. There are so many affordable all tube guitar amps I wonder why the few bass ones seem to be $2,000 or more. Is it really that much more expensive to build an all tube bass combo?
Click to expand...

The big difference in better tube amps is Massive transformers. Those cost money.
The cheaper amps have lighter duty imported transformers.
 
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#136
Neon Blues said:
... The discussion is what the market for Tube Amps is going to look like with technology getting closer to emulating the Tube tone in the coming years ...
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Technology is getting better at emulating the tube tone, which let's call it what it is, is distortion.

Some years ago I came up with a way to emulate the Leslie loudspeaker rotor that used the measured impulse response of the rotor and with a DSP made a time varying filter to create the two-dimensional effect, etc., etc. Here's a not-so-stunning realization - it is easier to just use a real Leslie speaker. Upgrade the components, crank up the power - done.

IMO, as long as there is an effort to emulate an analog effect (Leslie, tube amp distortion and so on), there will forever be a market for the original source of that emulation.
 
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#140
JimmyM said:
If it were so simple as to just be distortion, then tube emulation that really sounds like the real thing would already be accomplished.
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It's an insurmountable marketing problem. If you claim that an amp has achieved emulation, there's no way of proving whether it does or doesn't, and you will always be under a cloud of suspicion that you have allowed your product to fall short of perfect emulation, in pursuit of economy. Anybody can say that an amp sounds like a tube amp, anybody can say that it doesn't, and that's the end of it.

Developing a product, no matter how good, against an insurmountable marketing obstacle, is a fool's errand. I'm not trying to sound cynical, but just realistic. And its not a big deal. Tube amps remain readily available, and anybody can decide for themselves how badly they need one.

In my view, a preferable approach is to pursue tone, not emulation. Let people be pleasantly surprised by your sound, without knowing how you achieved it.

Disclaimer: I make solid state bass gear, but not complete amplifiers, so my commercial interest in this thread is minimal.
 
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