Is this 2000W amp claim deliberately misleading?

[Al Krow]

A newbie recently asked why is this Bugera 2000W amp so much cheaper and more powerful than other 500W amps?

BV1001T | Head Amplifiers | Bass | Bugera | Categories | MUSIC Tribe

Answer: because the manufacturer is using a "peak" watt measure and not the more usual RMS number.

Nowhere are they showing on their ad they are using the "peak" number. Given that most manufacturers use RMS, shouldn't Bugera simply be making clear that this is a 2000W "peak" rating somewhere on the ad and not leaving it "buried" in the manual?

What do you guys think?

 

[Jeff Scott]

Welcome to Marketing BS 101.

 

[Munjibunga]

Is this 2000W amp claim deliberately misleading?

Yes.

 

[1bassplayinfool]

 

[Microbass]

I thought this was standard practice for all amps these days, it’s just that Behringer/Bugera go for a ridiculous peak number over and above the new norm?

 

[Al Krow]

The fact they are also claiming that it is "ultra high power" and 2000W in the same ad, says to me this wasn't an innocent oversight when they "forgot" to mention they are using a peak rating (unlike most other manufacturers who use RMS) on their ad.

 

[Rick James]

shouldn't Bugera simply be making clear that this is a 2000W "peak" rating somewhere on the ad and not leaving it "buried" in the manual?

The manual only shows the peak rating, and it looks phony too. The power consumption at 1/8 power is 110 watts. That makes it 880 watts at full power. Assuming 90% efficiency it might have an actual output of 800w, which is only 1600w peak. Efficiency could be more than 90%, but I doubt it.

 

[mmbongo]

I thought this was standard practice for all amps these days, it’s just that Behringer/Bugera go for a ridiculous peak number over and above the new norm?

No sir. All the reputable amp companies such as Mesa Boogie, Aguilar, Gallien Krueger, Quilter, TecAmp, Genzler, etc...all provide actual real world power numbers.

Bugera/Behringer uses power ratings that they just pulled out of thin air. It should be illegal, really.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

A newbie recently asked why is this Bugera 2000W amp so much cheaper and more powerful than other 500W amps?

BV1001T | Head Amplifiers | Bass | Bugera | Categories | MUSIC Tribe

Answer: because the manufacturer is using a "peak" watt measure and not the more usual RMS number.

Nowhere are they showing on their ad they are using the "peak" number. Given that most manufacturers use RMS, shouldn't Bugera simply be making clear that this is a 2000W "peak" rating somewhere on the ad and not leaving it "buried" in the manual?

What do you guys think?

It's a 500w amp. It's well more than enough power, for anyone really. They get loud. And if you like the tone (very transparent), and the features, they do thier jobs very well. It's the quality control that causes the bad rap. I've never had a problem with them, but there are beyond plenty of horror stories. The up side, if you do get a lemon, just simply return it for a replacement. I played my Veyron for a good two years everyday. Gigging like twice a month. With absolutely zero problems.

 

[ArtechnikA]

Think about it: why are electric heaters and slo-cookers and coffeemakers rated at 1835W?
Because that's the most you can pull from a 15A circuit.
When you rate your product with an output watt rating that exceeds the available input (nevermind the conversion losses...) it is not a mere oversight - it is a decision.

 

[Mr. Foxen]

Watt ratings are for being misleading. Watts don't tell you much useful regardless.

 

[fdeck]

Behringer states "peak" in their specs, for what it's worth.

 

[agedhorse]

Think about it: why are electric heaters and slo-cookers and coffeemakers rated at 1835W?
Because that's the most you can pull from a 15A circuit.
When you rate your product with an output watt rating that exceeds the available input (nevermind the conversion losses...) it is not a mere oversight - it is a decision.

Heater (average) power consumption is required by law to be rated differently because they are not dynamic loads. Audio amps of all kinds use duty cycle which more accurately represents real world power consumption for dynamic music conditions.

 

[mikewalker]

Only 2000 watts?? Why, this sub-100-dollar car amp puts out more than that...

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[johnpbass]

The fact they are also claiming that it is "ultra high power" and 2000W in the same ad, says to me this wasn't an innocent oversight when they "forgot" to mention they are using a peak rating (unlike most other manufacturers who use RMS) on their ad.

So it's 2000 Ultra Watts, Ultra Watts being louder than either tube watts or SS watts.

 

[brianrost]

I thought this was standard practice for all amps these days

How about Chinese no-name battery powered PA cabs advertised as putting out 1000 watts selling for $150???

 

[basscapes]

Yup. about as clear as mud.

2000 Watts?

Is that RMS?

Peak?

A Hair Dryer?

And, into what Impedance?

8?

4?

2?

600?

Kittens?

We can pretty much take @agedhorse at his word here- he's one of the few that not only KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT; he WORKS in the industry!

The car audio era of the 70's and 80's pretty much laid claim to snake oil ratings for quite a while as well (remember those "1000W power boosters" that were no bigger than a couple of CD cases?).

 

[Cage]

A newbie recently asked why is this Bugera 2000W amp so much cheaper and more powerful than other 500W amps?

BV1001T | Head Amplifiers | Bass | Bugera | Categories | MUSIC Tribe

Answer: because the manufacturer is using a "peak" watt measure and not the more usual RMS number.

Nowhere are they showing on their ad they are using the "peak" number. Given that most manufacturers use RMS, shouldn't Bugera simply be making clear that this is a 2000W "peak" rating somewhere on the ad and not leaving it "buried" in the manual?

What do you guys think?

I have one of the 1001m I don't know if it's truly 2000 WATS but it has plenty of power and tone for the money they can't be beat

 

[two fingers]

A newbie recently asked why is this Bugera 2000W amp so much cheaper and more powerful than other 500W amps?

BV1001T | Head Amplifiers | Bass | Bugera | Categories | MUSIC Tribe

Answer: because the manufacturer is using a "peak" watt measure and not the more usual RMS number.

Nowhere are they showing on their ad they are using the "peak" number. Given that most manufacturers use RMS, shouldn't Bugera simply be making clear that this is a 2000W "peak" rating somewhere on the ad and not leaving it "buried" in the manual?

What do you guys think?

Yes.

If I may, I would like to make a suggestion. If you are shopping for an amp, and are new to amp shopping, start another thread.

Give us your budgets, approximate location (like what country at least), and tone/volume goals. Also tell us the kind of bass and cab(s) you are working with.

Advice will literally come out of thin air and land in your lap.


..... along with a decent amount of humor and ridiculousness.

We're here to help if you give us some specifics.

 

[Al Krow]

Yes.

If I may, I would like to make a suggestion. If you are shopping for an amp, and are new to amp shopping, start another thread.

Give us your budgets, approximate location (like what country at least), and tone/volume goals. Also tell us the kind of bass and cab(s) you are working with.

Advice will literally come out of thin air and land in your lap.


..... along with a decent amount of humor and ridiculousness.

We're here to help if you give us some specifics.

That's very kind, but I'm a not so new bass player who's ended up with a Mesa M6 and a DG M900 as his two amps.

This thread was much more borne of my shock at the barefaced cheek of the ad, and wondering whether I was right to be feeling indignant, or whether these guys were "well within their rights" and I just need to generally lower my expectations of what manufacturers put out about their products.

It's not the first time I've come across something like this. Trickfish do the same without mentioning their amp ratings are "peak" on their ads. This just seemed more blatant.