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Is this 2000W amp claim deliberately misleading?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Al Krow, Nov 15, 2018.


  1. Yes - they should be making it clear they're using a peak number in the ad

  2. No - it's pretty obvious you should be checking the manual

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Al Krow

    Al Krow

    Jan 15, 2018
    London
    A newbie recently asked why is this Bugera 2000W amp so much cheaper and more powerful than other 500W amps?

    BV1001T | Head Amplifiers | Bass | Bugera | Categories | MUSIC Tribe

    Answer: because the manufacturer is using a "peak" watt measure and not the more usual RMS number.

    Nowhere are they showing on their ad they are using the "peak" number. Given that most manufacturers use RMS, shouldn't Bugera simply be making clear that this is a 2000W "peak" rating somewhere on the ad and not leaving it "buried" in the manual?

    What do you guys think?
     
    ibenmodulus likes this.
  2. Jeff Scott

    Jeff Scott Rickenbacker guru.......... Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2006
    Welcome to Marketing BS 101.
     
  3. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Retired Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Is this 2000W amp claim deliberately misleading?

    Yes.
     
    GregC, RickyT, ibenmodulus and 14 others like this.
  4. 1bassplayinfool

    1bassplayinfool -Nowhere Man- Supporting Member

    caution-sign.
     
  5. I thought this was standard practice for all amps these days, it’s just that Behringer/Bugera go for a ridiculous peak number over and above the new norm?
     
    Ross W. Lovell likes this.
  6. Al Krow

    Al Krow

    Jan 15, 2018
    London
    The fact they are also claiming that it is "ultra high power" and 2000W in the same ad, says to me this wasn't an innocent oversight when they "forgot" to mention they are using a peak rating (unlike most other manufacturers who use RMS) on their ad.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  7. Rick James

    Rick James

    Feb 24, 2007
    New Jersey
    The manual only shows the peak rating, and it looks phony too. The power consumption at 1/8 power is 110 watts. That makes it 880 watts at full power. Assuming 90% efficiency it might have an actual output of 800w, which is only 1600w peak. Efficiency could be more than 90%, but I doubt it.
     
  8. mmbongo

    mmbongo Five Time World Champion Supporting Member

    Aug 5, 2009
    Carolinas
    No sir. All the reputable amp companies such as Mesa Boogie, Aguilar, Gallien Krueger, Quilter, TecAmp, Genzler, etc...all provide actual real world power numbers.

    Bugera/Behringer uses power ratings that they just pulled out of thin air. It should be illegal, really.
     
    GregC, DavesnothereCA, PWRL and 11 others like this.
  9. It's a 500w amp. It's well more than enough power, for anyone really. They get loud. And if you like the tone (very transparent), and the features, they do thier jobs very well. It's the quality control that causes the bad rap. I've never had a problem with them, but there are beyond plenty of horror stories. The up side, if you do get a lemon, just simply return it for a replacement. I played my Veyron for a good two years everyday. Gigging like twice a month. With absolutely zero problems.
     
  10. ArtechnikA

    ArtechnikA I endorsed a check once... Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 24, 2013
    SEPA
    Think about it: why are electric heaters and slo-cookers and coffeemakers rated at 1835W?
    Because that's the most you can pull from a 15A circuit.
    When you rate your product with an output watt rating that exceeds the available input (nevermind the conversion losses...) it is not a mere oversight - it is a decision.
     
  11. Mr. Foxen

    Mr. Foxen Commercial User

    Jul 24, 2009
    Bristol, UK
    Amp tinkerer at Ampstack
    Watt ratings are for being misleading. Watts don't tell you much useful regardless.
     
  12. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    Behringer states "peak" in their specs, for what it's worth.
     
    Artman and arbiterusa like this.
  13. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Heater (average) power consumption is required by law to be rated differently because they are not dynamic loads. Audio amps of all kinds use duty cycle which more accurately represents real world power consumption for dynamic music conditions.
     
  14. mikewalker

    mikewalker Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2017
    Canada, Eh!
  15. johnpbass

    johnpbass

    Feb 18, 2008
    Glen Mills, PA
    So it's 2000 Ultra Watts, Ultra Watts being louder than either tube watts or SS watts.:D
     
  16. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    How about Chinese no-name battery powered PA cabs advertised as putting out 1000 watts selling for $150???
     
    nilorius likes this.
  17. Yup. about as clear as mud.

    2000 Watts?

    Is that RMS?

    Peak?

    A Hair Dryer?

    And, into what Impedance?

    8?

    4?

    2?

    600?

    Kittens?

    We can pretty much take @agedhorse at his word here- he's one of the few that not only KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT; he WORKS in the industry!

    The car audio era of the 70's and 80's pretty much laid claim to snake oil ratings for quite a while as well (remember those "1000W power boosters" that were no bigger than a couple of CD cases?).
     
    MaplePrecision and mikewalker like this.
  18. Cage

    Cage

    Oct 1, 2018
    I have one of the 1001m I don't know if it's truly 2000 WATS but it has plenty of power and tone for the money they can't be beat
     
    GlassToMouth and CharlieMac like this.
  19. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    Yes.

    If I may, I would like to make a suggestion. If you are shopping for an amp, and are new to amp shopping, start another thread.

    Give us your budgets, approximate location (like what country at least), and tone/volume goals. Also tell us the kind of bass and cab(s) you are working with.

    Advice will literally come out of thin air and land in your lap. :D


    ..... along with a decent amount of humor and ridiculousness. ;)

    We're here to help if you give us some specifics.
     
  20. Al Krow

    Al Krow

    Jan 15, 2018
    London
    That's very kind, but I'm a not so new bass player who's ended up with a Mesa M6 and a DG M900 as his two amps.

    This thread was much more borne of my shock at the barefaced cheek of the ad, and wondering whether I was right to be feeling indignant, or whether these guys were "well within their rights" and I just need to generally lower my expectations of what manufacturers put out about their products.

    It's not the first time I've come across something like this. Trickfish do the same without mentioning their amp ratings are "peak" on their ads. This just seemed more blatant.
     

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