Is this 2000W amp claim deliberately misleading?

[Jeff Scott]

Kittens?

Are kittens the new carrots? This is important information that all of us need to know.

Oh, looky here, we now have the soon to be released Behringer UltraKitten.

Link coming soon to a thread near you.

 

[two fingers]

That's very kind, but I'm a not so new bass player who's ended up with a Mesa M6 and a DG M900 as his two amps.

This thread was much more borne of my shock at the barefaced cheek of the ad, and wondering whether I was right to be feeling indignant, or whether these guys were "well within their rights" and I just need to generally lower my expectations of what manufacturers put out about their products.

It's not the first time I've come across something like this. Trickfish do the same without mentioning their amp ratings are "peak" on their ads. This just seemed more blatant.

My apologies. I misunderstood.

Carry on.

 

[nilorius]

Bugera is selling the impossible things and i think your amp is 1/4 the power it is written. I know a lot of cheap german/china "brands" that do the same.

 

[arbiterusa]

What do you guys think?

It's not an inaccurate claim. Misleading, maybe...but not inaccurate.

If you're buying Bugera/Behringer you don't know enough to care about the difference, anyhow, so I really don't see a problem here.

 

[arbiterusa]

No sir. All the reputable amp companies such as Mesa Boogie, Aguilar, Gallien Krueger, Quilter, TecAmp, Genzler, etc...all provide actual real world power numbers.

Sure, I'll be that guy. RMS is in no way "real world power numbers". It has zero basis in the real world for how musicians use amplifiers. It is simply a number that most - not all - MI manufacturers use. And I might add that there's a lot of room to fudge numbers even if I'm using RMS as my measurement.

RMS as an universal standard went out the window in the 1990s, probably earlier, with car stereos. That gear is all rated peak.

 

[agedhorse]

RMS as an universal standard went out the window in the 1990s

It did???

Not when it comes to the safety and EMC agency requirements for certification it didn't.

 

[arbiterusa]

It did???

Not when it comes to the safety and EMC agency requirements for certification it didn't.

You are correct. I should have qualified "for advertising".

 

[basscapes]

Are kittens the new carrots? This is important information that all of us need to know.

Oh, looky here, we now have the soon to be released Behringer UltraKitten.

Link coming soon to a thread near you.

Well, I don't know about that! LOL

One of my 1 st year college profs used to say kittens if we didn't specify our answer-

Student- "The answer is 100!"

Prof- "100 WHAT??? Kittens???"

BTW, I like kittens, but not cats. I like ketchup, but not tomatoes. While I absolutely HATE carrots, I LOVE carrot cake!!!

 

[Gizmot]

I've written here before that nearly all bass amp specs are pretty close to meaningless. No one states clearly what the distortion rating is - or quotes output numbers given at 10% or higher distortion knowing that the power envelope of the amp is nearly depleted.

If manufacturers were completely honest, they'd publish power vs distortion curves and state precisely what the conditions their amps are measured under and what they'll do in real-use conditions - - power @ 8 ohms nominal; power @ 4 ohms nominal; power at 2 ohms nominal - - all stated with the level of distortion and for how long they'll deliver whatever level of output they claim.

This will never happen as long as there are buyers who only seem to care about what companies claim their amps will put out - even if it's only for half a waveform and for a few milliseconds.

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

A newbie recently asked why is this Bugera 2000W amp so much cheaper and more powerful than other 500W amps?

BV1001T | Head Amplifiers | Bass | Bugera | Categories | MUSIC Tribe

Answer: because the manufacturer is using a "peak" watt measure and not the more usual RMS number.

Nowhere are they showing on their ad they are using the "peak" number. Given that most manufacturers use RMS, shouldn't Bugera simply be making clear that this is a 2000W "peak" rating somewhere on the ad and not leaving it "buried" in the manual?

What do you guys think?

Bugera now being run by "ethically elastic" owners.

 

[Turbo Sparky]

There is NOT a single universaly accepted and or mandated and or legislated definition of "organic," "organicly," nor "GMO free" either. Shop smart, shop S Mart.

 

[BaltBass5]

If you know anything about amps...and you see a head advertised as 4x the power as almost every other manufacturer and for under 1/2 the price, you should be saying: Hmmmmm.

To another point...if you are using the amp’s advertised wattage as anything other than a loose guideline you prob need to check yourself. Example 1 Ampeg SVT4Pro 1600 Watts and from a volume standpoint just about every other 500 watt amp on the market will crush it.

 

[bobcruz]

Watts, ohms...these and other measures are named after the engineers who pioneered the theory and measurements they represent. So I guess there needs to be a new measure, a "Behringer." "My amp puts out 2000 Behringers!" Very impressive.

Now, I would buy an amp that put out "2000 Agedhorses!"

 

[Rick James]

Bugera now being run by "ethically elastic" owners.

Now? How about always. They've been sued for intellectual property theft, patent and copyright infringement more that any other company in the industry. They even took on the name Bugera to avoid association with the Behringer name because of the bad rep Behringer acquired in spades since they knocked off an Aphex Aural Exciter, the first in a long line of copies.

 

[shastaband]

My toaster oven says 1500 watts!

 

[Abe-of-Bass]

Now? How about always. They've been sued for intellectual property theft, patent and copyright infringement more that any other company in the industry. They even took on the name Bugera to avoid association with the Behringer name because of the bad rep Behringer acquired in spades since they knocked off an Aphex Aural Exciter, the first in a long line of copies.

I recommend doing some deeper research before spreading FUD.

I won't go into it all, and I'm not an expert anyways, but if you actually looked into it you may find that your claims aren't very accurate. Also, being accused of a crime is not the same as being guilty of one. Behringer's approach of imitating the designs of competitors is weird to me, and I'm sure that leads to a lot of accusations, but just because something looks similar outside, does not mean it's internals are copies.

I don't want to defend Behringer, and disagree with some of their business practices, but I disagree much more strongly with ignorance being spread as truth.

 

[Mili]

That's just carrot, 2000 Carrots.

 

[fhm555]

As long as there is no standard for specs it’s on us to confirm any claims.

 

[gumtown]

I've written here before that nearly all bass amp specs are pretty close to meaningless. No one states clearly what the distortion rating is - or quotes output numbers given at 10% or higher distortion knowing that the power envelope of the amp is nearly depleted.

If manufacturers were completely honest, they'd publish power vs distortion curves and state precisely what the conditions their amps are measured under and what they'll do in real-use conditions - - power @ 8 ohms nominal; power @ 4 ohms nominal; power at 2 ohms nominal - - all stated with the level of distortion and for how long they'll deliver whatever level of output they claim.

This will never happen as long as there are buyers who only seem to care about what companies claim their amps will put out - even if it's only for half a waveform and for a few milliseconds.

I don't think the average buyer really cares for confusing specs and actual facts, just so long as it looks cool and has "2000 Watts" printed across the front in large letters.

My toaster oven says 1500 watts!

Now sit that on top of your 8x10 fridge cabinet and show it off... "It does 1500 Watts..man .. Hell Yeah !!"

 

[mark roberts]

Love my old SWR Bass 350 and Stewart World 1.2 gear. 350W per channel MINIMUM RMS.