Is this normal? [CL Musicians content]

[electracoyote]

I emphatically disagree, respectfully of course. I don't care how old or young someone is, communicating with no punctuation, no capitalization and mispelling cannot be fobbed off simply on "oh he's young, that's how they learned." It indicates a very lax attitude towards doing things right and just screams "lazy" and "entitled" to me. It's also disrespectful to the reader. Punctuation and capitalization matter because they are inventions to allow us to understand the written word in a quick, concise and clear manner. Without them, I have to now take double or triple the time to glean any meaning from what I am reading, and that just shows the writer doesn't respect me or my time. That attitude, without a doubt, pervade everything about their personality and I suggest to the OP to stay the hell away.

I receive poor grammar messages from my band members almost daily that would make Strunk and White roll in their graves. But, more importantly, I can read and comprehend them. Most important: These are great musicians, highly talented intelligent people, who I love playing music with. If I had dismissed them based on their loose interwebz grammar, I would have made a big mistake.

 

[SmokinJoe992]

"Depending on the reader's expectations," indeed.

When looking for good musicians, don't expect a grammarian. You'll have much more success.

I agree that your expectations are an important consideration. If you are just looking for someone to jam with a couple of times, a lot of these things become less significant. If you are looking to join a band or add someone to your band, these things are much more important. My experience has been that someone with very poor grammar, and spelling, or someone that does not have their crap together in general, make very poor band members regardless of their musical ability.

 

[electracoyote]

I agree that your expectations are an important consideration. If you are just looking for someone to jam with a couple of times, a lot of these things become less significant. If you are looking to join a band or add someone to your band, these things are much more important. My experience has been that someone with very poor grammar, and spelling, or someone that does not have their crap together in general, make very poor band members regardless of their musical ability.

I'm not sure how you can so immediately and certainly make the connection between those two things. Often, that is not the case at all. The internet and twitter have changed the communication paradigm, and some very successful intelligent people use shortcuts and slang frequently.

 

[aborgman]

"Depending on the reader's expectations," indeed.

When looking for good musicians, don't expect a grammarian. You'll have much more success.

When I'm looking for band members, sheer musicianship is a way down the list.

They need to be competent - but things like punctuality, ability to communicate, dependability, etc. matter.

It's a business, and like any other business sheer talent at core duties needs to be combined with the ability to work and communicate with co-workers and customers.

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

IMO: no, it's not normal, but somewhat typical for many (most?) CL ads. and yes: i'm sure some bands get going, or try to get going, in this manner --- via these ads.

i doubt i'd ever travel 50 miles in response to an ad... but definitely not this one. good luck on your band-seeking experience!

The Beatles met on Colin'sList an era Liverpudlian version of Craig's.

 

[electracoyote]

When I'm looking for band members, sheer musicianship is a way down the list.

They need to be competent - but things like punctuality, ability to communicate, dependability, etc. matter.

It's a business, and like any other business sheer talent at core duties needs to be combined with the ability to work and communicate with co-workers and customers.

As pertains to the OP, I comprehended the quoted text just fine. I think anyone reading it wouldn't have a hard time understanding it.

IMHO, it's a stretch and a rush to judgment to equate his style, which is so typical in this modern age of communication, with character traits like not punctual, incompetent, and undependable. There are certainly many punctual, dependable, competent, and very successful people who often use similar modern e-communication shortcuts and slang.

 

[getrhythm]

For Craigslist, yes. This is normal/typical.
This guy sounds like a loon.
Stay far away.

 

[SmokinJoe992]

I'm not sure how you can so immediately and certainly make the connection between those two things. Often, that is not the case at all. The internet and twitter have changed the communication paradigm, and some very successful intelligent people use shortcuts and slang frequently.

I don’t think anyone is talking about intentional slang or abbreviations. Also, I am sure that if you had an English teacher check any of my posts they would find some grammatical errors.
Your experience may be different, but to me major grammatical and spelling errors are big red flags. You also need to consider that I am 49. If I was 18 this would probably be way less important.

 

[electracoyote]

I don’t think anyone is talking about intentional slang or abbreviations. Also, I am sure that if you had an English teacher check any of my posts they would find some grammatical errors.
Your experience may be different, but to me major grammatical and spelling errors are big red flags. You also need to consider that I am 49. If I was 18 this would probably be way less important.

I am a retired public school English teacher. You're safe with me, largely because I am reading your posts for the message, not the envelope.

In a practical sense, casual communication is for comprehension. The modern use of slang and shortcuts as seen in the OP and so much of our modern electronic communications (twitter, facebook, text, chat rooms, blogs, etc.) have radically changed the paradigm. It's now all about the essence of communication for comprehension, not style points, and it is prevalent in today's society.

To equate traits of intelligence or personal responsibility to this new communication paradigm is a mistake IMHO. It is poor criteria on which to judge someone you really don't know anything else about.

My two sons use these conventions all the time in their personal casual communication. Both graduated with MBA's from CU Boulder, and both work for two of the most coveted accounting firms in the Denver/Metro area. I can assure you, they are not lazy, stupid, or irresponsible. But if you read some of their texts, tweets, and e-mails, you might be tempted to think so, and be making a big mistake in the process.

I read and comprehended the text OP received from the CL poster just fine. The envelope is not the most important thing to me. I'd want to find out for myself, with much more observable convincing criteria, if he is a flake or not.

 

[SmokinJoe992]

I am a retired public school English teacher. You're safe with me, largely because I am reading your posts for the message, not the envelope.

In a practical sense, casual communication is for comprehension. The modern use of slang and shortcuts as seen in the OP and so much of our modern electronic communications (twitter, facebook, text, chat rooms, blogs, etc.) have radically changed the paradigm. It's now all about the essence of communication for comprehension, not style points, and it is prevalent in today's society.

To equate traits of intelligence or personal responsibility to this new communication paradigm is a mistake IMHO. It is poor criteria on which to judge someone you really don't know anything else about.

My two sons use these conventions all the time in their personal casual communication. Both graduated with MBA's from CU Boulder, and both work for two of the most coveted accounting firms in the Denver/Metro area. I can assure you, they are not lazy, stupid, or irresponsible. But if you read some of their texts tweets and e-mails, you might be tempted to think so, and be making a big mistake in the process.

I read and comprehended the text OP received from the CL poster just fine. The envelope is not the most important thing to me. I'd want to find out for myself, with much more observable convincing criteria, if he is a flake or not.

I am a retired public school English teacher. You're safe with me, largely because I am reading your posts for the message, not the envelope.

In a practical sense, casual communication is for comprehension. The modern use of slang and shortcuts as seen in the OP and so much of our modern electronic communications (twitter, facebook, text, chat rooms, blogs, etc.) have radically changed the paradigm. It's now all about the essence of communication for comprehension, not style points, and it is prevalent in today's society.

To equate traits of intelligence or personal responsibility to this new communication paradigm is a mistake IMHO. It is poor criteria on which to judge someone you really don't know anything else about.

My two sons use these conventions all the time in their personal casual communication. Both graduated with MBA's from CU Boulder, and both work for two of the most coveted accounting firms in the Denver/Metro area. I can assure you, they are not lazy, stupid, or irresponsible. But if you read some of their texts, tweets, and e-mails, you might be tempted to think so, and be making a big mistake in the process.

I read and comprehended the text OP received from the CL poster just fine. The envelope is not the most important thing to me. I'd want to find out for myself, with much more observable convincing criteria, if he is a flake or not.

I appreciate you sparing my posts the "red pen" treatment. I am sure there were plenty of errors you could have pointed out. While I agree that there are exceptions to every rule, I still think it is a good indication of the amount of professionalism the person has. Casual communication with friends or people you know is one thing. If I am writing a post or communicating with someone I am trying to recruit for a band, I try to put my best foot forward.
I would not exclude someone based solely on grammar, but I wouldn't ignore it either.

 

[Cheez]

lol go do it and charge him $50 a song.

No, $50 and hour!

 

[JRA]

To equate traits of intelligence or personal responsibility to this new communication paradigm is a mistake IMHO. It is poor criteria on which to judge someone you really don't know anything else about.

i agree. my previous post notwithstanding.

 

[Engle]

I’ve found good musicians using CL. It does take time and filtering.
One of the positives:
I put sample tunes, recordings and set lists in a Dropbox folder. I’m not sure if they still do, but Dropbox used to give free storage every time you invited someone to share the folder and they installed the app. I ended up with a lot of free storage

 

[electracoyote]

I appreciate you sparing my posts the "red pen" treatment. I am sure there were plenty of errors you could have pointed out. While I agree that there are exceptions to every rule, I still think it is a good indication of the amount of professionalism the person has. Casual communication with friends or people you know is one thing. If I am writing a post or communicating with someone I am trying to recruit for a band, I try to put my best foot forward.
I would not exclude someone based solely on grammar, but I wouldn't ignore it either.

Yeah, I get a lot of apprehension when people find out I'm a retired English teacher. I literally have to give assurances I'm not coming after them with the red pencil. Conversely, people love to find mistakes in my spoken or written grammar. It's a fun game.

Your point is well taken: There is still a notion that people should display a command of, and respect for, the English language. I kind of miss those days when it was more common.

Certainly, as @aborgman noted, in a more serious and professional business sense, you can't get away with what OP encountered. In my band, no one releases or publishes any promotional or marketing text but me (I don't mind them promoting via their personal FB or e-mail lists, but "official" communications on our band website, FB page, or with talent buyers must be edited and approved by me).

And I guess you could expect that level of professionalism from a fellow musician right out of the gate with the very first communications. I just think that's a pretty high standard in this scenario. Some people are talented, responsible, goal- and detail-oriented, but they just never got a good grip on formal style and grammar.

I've actually been accused of sounding stuffy and formal in my initial communications with other musicians, and been told it's a turn-off. Go figure.

For my purposes as a band leader, if I can understand them, and they have something to offer my project, I'm interested to know more about them as people and players. Good players are hard enough to find even without applying the extra criteria of grammarian.

 

[aborgman]

My two sons use these conventions all the time in their personal casual communication. Both graduated with MBA's from CU Boulder, and both work for two of the most coveted accounting firms in the Denver/Metro area. I can assure you, they are not lazy, stupid, or irresponsible.

They don't use it at work, do they? If not, what is reasoning? Would it because it would be seen as unprofessional?

I would consider discussions about forming a band, involving people you don't know, to be much closer to business than personal casual communication.

 

[Wfrance3]

Go ahead and go, but bring backup, witnesses, have an escape plan...

 

[ArtechnikA]

I would consider discussions about forming a band, involving people you don't know, to be much closer to business than personal casual communication.

And that's the essential disconnect in this thread.
Some people are talking about finding musicians, and some are talking about finding bandmates.

 

[electracoyote]

They don't use it at work, do they? If not, what is reasoning? Would it because it would be seen as unprifessional?

They're accountants, not musicians. I make a big distinction.

I would consider discussions about forming a band, involving people you don't know, to be much closer to business than personal casual communication.

And that is your right. I've explained the pitfalls; if finding musicians who are grammarians is that important to you, who can argue?

I do consider my personal casual communications with my musicians, well, personal and casual. As long as we're communicating and on the same page, functioning like a well-oiled machine, I'm happy.

Like I said to @SmokinJoe992 , this BL doesn't apply the red pencil to his band members.

 

[RustyAxe]

The Beatles met on Colin'sList an era Liverpudlian version of Craig's.

Never heard of it. But we used the bulletin board at local shops to find band mates. Often we'd meet at the same places in person. At least we knew that respondents had the drive to get off the couch and go somewhere ... ie; had to make an effort to participate. Today's internet means that they can just sit at home, post an ad, and wait for replies. Never venture from the couch!

 

[aborgman]

And that is your right. I've explained the pitfalls; if finding musicians who are grammarians is that important to you, who can argue?

It isn't that I expect perfect grammar - it's that I expect a modicum of effort.

I do consider my personal casual communications with my musicians, well, personal and casual. As long as we're communicating and on the same page, functioning like a well-oiled machine, I'm happy.

Like I said to @SmokinJoe992 , this BL doesn't apply the red pencil to his band members.

[/quote]

There is a difference between band members, who you know and are familiar with, and folks trying to form/join a band.

Once you're hired for a job (music or otherwise) the acceptable level of informality changes from what is expected in your resume.

I wouldn't automatically discount someone because of poor grammar, but it would hold some weight among otherwise completely equal candidates and would certainly be something I would keep an eye on.