Is this really what they're worth?

[aureliab20gt]

........and just noticed that the edge of the heel in the neck plate photo is very sharp. This edge should be more rounded

 

[HiFiONE]

Creampuff sounds like something an auto dealer would use.

You forgot... purrs like a kitten, rides like a dream.

...only played in church on Sundays by grandma..

 

[Ron Berenato]

I've never seen or heard that particular definition for a "transition" Fender.

When did that happen? And what's the story behind that arrangement with which manufacturer in Japan?

Guitar Gallery in Tuscaloosa Alabama described the scenario to me. He showed me the serial number and explained that a lot of pre CBS parts were assembled by CBS. It might not have been in Japan, but it was after the buyout. Either way, it was the best $500 gear purchase I ever made.

 

[mongo2]

Guitar Gallery in Tuscaloosa Alabama described the scenario to me. He showed me the serial number and explained that a lot of pre CBS parts were assembled by CBS. It might not have been in Japan, but it was after the buyout. Either way, it was the best $500 gear purchase I ever made.

The sale to CBS took effect on January 4, 1965. The parts already in the factory at the time the sale took effect were assembled into instruments in the same factory, not in Japan. How long it took to use up those parts is not known. Serial numbered neck plates were simply pulled from a parts bin with no concern for numerical order. Necks then have month/year dates on the heel but bodies, not so much. Necks and bodies may have lingered on the floor before being assembled into instruments so it's possible to have a mix of parts from pre-CBS and CBS construction in the same instrument. Potentiometers were ordered in large batches and used over a period of time so they can be an indicator but they aren't definitive when it comes to dating an instrument.

Sounds like you got a good one.

 

[bigtone23]

For white, it's an asking price. If it were all original with a cool, custom color that would be more of a selling price.

 

[Arthur Indenbaum]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
I'm no fender collector, what makes it worth so much? Handmade? Handwound pickups? Something particular for that year?

CBS bought out Fender in 1965 and it's generally agreed that the quality of the instruments took a deep dive, SO, Pre CBS is a big deal. Any P Bass or J bass pre 1965 is more valuable (to players and collectors, significantly more) than 65 or after. Then there's 'original' meaning Tuners, Bridge, pick ups, pots, bridge and pick up covers, etc. All original parts makes a pre CBS much (MUCH) more valuable. Thus my '63 (bought used in 1965) with a replacement bridge (it rusted out) replacement tuners (I hated the originals) a small hole in the body for an Alembic pre-amp is worth way less than an original, they call it a 'players' bass.

 

[scorpion1]

With every passing year the market for that stuff must be getting smaller as well. I wager this is why we see hyper-optimistic prices. $11,000 today could well be "old bass, meh, whatever" in twenty years.

Too true....I saw a well written piece somewhere recently. The silly price guitar thing will as the years pass become less and less as the older players pass or become more realistic and stop buying these over inflated antiques. There aren’t the players coming through to replace these older players. The sad thing is as these older people depart...especially suddenly, their relatives won’t know the “value” and these rare and valuable guitars will pass to charity shops...junk stores and maybe even rubbish/garbage facilities as “an old piece of crap”. This is a depressing thought but a very real possibility. I think the silly and ridiculous values as there are right now are about as high as they will go. There needs to be a movement like punk or some huge shift back towards guitars and live music to save an awful lot of nice instruments becoming worthless landfill!

 

[FlametopFred]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
I'm no fender collector, what makes it worth so much? Handmade? Handwound pickups? Something particular for that year?

I know an older local bass player that has owned their 1964 Fender Jazz bass from new out of the shop. The bass and player show up at local gigs. The case is beat to hell and looks like something you would want to avoid touching.

Plugging in and playing, well the bass never seems to need to be tuned. It always seems in tune. Never seems to drift out during a gig. The strings are thought to have never been changed. Ever. Just wiped down at the end of every gig. You can't really tell if the strings were once roundwounds. Nobody seems to know.

The sound is indescribable. I mean that's what first caught my ear the first time I made acquaintance I had my back to the stage. The sound hits right in your backbone, right at your pelvis and your shoulders.

After a while I got to know player and bass. I was fortunate enough, one of the very few that are allowed to hold the bass and play it. I can say there is something about this bass. Age. Wood. Balance. Feel.

That bass feels and sounds like part of the continent. I know that sounds all voodoo-mojo but it is true. Something about some Fender guitars or basses that just feel and sound primordial, prehistoric, part of the continent, part of the tectonic plate and the amoeba and fossils. I guess that particular bass felt like it had sort of oozed up like a fossil but burst out all alive and everything.

Sometimes the sound seems like granite or rock from the Rocky Mountains. Other times the sounds seems exactly like a stack of wood that you have been chopping all day. Later on the sound growls like a grizzly bear at the edge of town. And up high on the neck the sound really moves like a locomotive at high speed heading down to Memphis.

To the player, this bass is still brand new. The player/owner still gushes about the bass like they both just united and walked out of the shop.

To everyone else you feel like you might have to sell your soul and even then it would never be the same. Maybe it is all about finding that guitar or bass that fits you so well like true love or a good marriage. Finding each other and never letting go.

Yes there is lore. But there are also some instruments that came together and they got it right. I think people have been trying to recreate that ever since. How did Leo Fender do it in the first place? Telecaster, Stratocaster, Precision, Jazz bass, Jazzmaster, Jaguar ...all so democratic and versatile and inclusive of all players and styles.

 

[eldoryder]

(snip)The sad thing is as these older people depart...especially suddenly, their relatives won’t know the “value” and these rare and valuable guitars will pass to charity shops...junk stores and maybe even rubbish/garbage facilities as “an old piece of crap”. This is a depressing thought but a very real possibility. (snip)

Are you KIDDING? WIth "Antiques Roadshow", "American Pickers" and half a dozen various Swap Meet & Garage Sale "Treasure" shows, there cannot be very many people who won't at least look up what these things are worth on eBay and go "Thanks, Grandad!" when they see what's going on pricewise. Even the most ignorant punter watches TV!

 

[scorpion1]

Eldoryder......These Guitar’s are worth next to nothing if nobody is playing guitars!!! How many guitar acts are troubling the top 40 charts these days. The answer is hardly any. They are seen as old fashioned by the youth of today, they aren’t coming through! You obviously didn’t get my point at all! A guitar is worth nothing to people that don’t play or appreciate what it is. If there isn’t a massive shift back to guitar music at some point soon then in 30/40 years time these rare and valuable instruments we have now will cease to be just that! Blame rap, hip hop and disgusting talent shows like the X factor.

 

[retslock]

Someone dumb enough to pay for it.

In the world of collecting, a thing is only ever worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. There are collectors who have the money and the desire to own a piece of history so up goes the price. You and I don’t buy for that reason so it doesn’t make a lot of sense. As they get more and more rare the price will get higher.

 

[retslock]

Eldoryder......These Guitar’s are worth next to nothing if nobody is playing guitars!!! How many guitar acts are troubling the top 40 charts these days. The answer is hardly any. They are seen as old fashioned by the youth of today, they aren’t coming through! You obviously didn’t get my point at all! A guitar is worth nothing to people that don’t play or appreciate what it is. If there isn’t a massive shift back to guitar music at some point soon then in 30/40 years time these rare and valuable instruments we have now will cease to be just that! Blame rap, hip hop and disgusting talent shows like the X factor.

Collectors are not necessarily players and since Elvis, Hendrix, Chuck Berry, BB King, Prince etc all played guitars they are part of musical history and therefore always will be significant to historians and collectors. Nobody uses typewriters or T-model Fords anymore but thay are still collected and a rare one will cost you plenty.

 

[retslock]

Too true....I saw a well written piece somewhere recently. The silly price guitar thing will as the years pass become less and less as the older players pass or become more realistic and stop buying these over inflated antiques. There aren’t the players coming through to replace these older players. The sad thing is as these older people depart...especially suddenly, their relatives won’t know the “value” and these rare and valuable guitars will pass to charity shops...junk stores and maybe even rubbish/garbage facilities as “an old piece of crap”. This is a depressing thought but a very real possibility. I think the silly and ridiculous values as there are right now are about as high as they will go. There needs to be a movement like punk or some huge shift back towards guitars and live music to save an awful lot of nice instruments becoming worthless landfill!

You’re making a mistake thinking that these old instruments will be bought by players. They are aimed at collectors and they are not necessarily players. As I have said in another post, collectors want history. They aren’t going to play it. It will hang on a wall so they can admire it and brag. The bass in question though, doesn’t appear to have it’s original finish and in time that will work against it. “Original” will always be worth money to a collector of historical items.

 

[UncleZeb]

Ok, I feel the need to refute a couple of these statements.

1. I've been playing bass since 1964 so I have a pretty good idea of how good basses play and sound.
2. I did not have any pre-conceived notions of how the bass and amp would sound. I am very well aware that some vintage instruments play and sound great and others fall far short. I have a friend with a 78 P-bass that would sell unseen for very good money these days. I wouldn't pay more than a hundred $ for it because it sounds lifeless. This bass that I played that day exceeded what I was expecting.
3. It stands to reason that 50+ year old wood is going to have less moisture than wood that was made into an instrument recently. No two pieces of wood sound the same when new or 50 years old. Some new basses that sound great may continue to sound great forever and some new basses that don't sound good may or may not sound better as they age. Totally random and unpredictable.

I should have qualified at the beginning that I didn't think that vintage instruments were better just because they were vintage. Each instrument has to be judged on its own merits.

4. Get off my lawn!

Rick B.

Been playing since “64” myself. The reason vintage guitars and cars are up in value is due to baby boomers. Retired plenty of money and trying to feel the magic of their youth one more time. Then there are the idiots.

 

[Bass Viking]

That bass feels and sounds like part of the continent. I know that sounds all voodoo-mojo but it is true. Something about some Fender guitars or basses that just feel and sound primordial, prehistoric, part of the continent, part of the tectonic plate and the amoeba and fossils. I guess that particular bass felt like it had sort of oozed up like a fossil but burst out all alive and everything.

Sometimes the sound seems like granite or rock from the Rocky Mountains. Other times the sounds seems exactly like a stack of wood that you have been chopping all day. Later on the sound growls like a grizzly bear at the edge of town. And up high on the neck the sound really moves like a locomotive at high speed heading down to Memphis.

To the player, this bass is still brand new. The player/owner still gushes about the bass like they both just united and walked out of the shop.

To everyone else you feel like you might have to sell your soul and even then it would never be the same. Maybe it is all about finding that guitar or bass that fits you so well like true love or a good marriage. Finding each other and never letting go.

.

My, you have quite the imagination!

 

[murdockbass]

...well...

How much is a Cotton Gin worth?

How much is a Pong Game worth?

How about a Motorola Flip Phone?

How about last years CD Player...

I would not recommend any type of investment in a guitar at this point in history as there are collectors who are taking a bath on instruments they thought would go up, up, up in price. They did not see the "death of the guitar", in general, limiting a players market!

Get a solid instrument you like, sounds great and leave the old stuff to the relics of time...

 

[mdogs]

...well...

How much is a Cotton Gin worth?

How much is a Pong Game worth?

How about a Motorola Flip Phone?

How about last years CD Player...

I would not recommend any type of investment in a guitar at this point in history as there are collectors who are taking a bath on instruments they thought would go up, up, up in price. They did not see the "death of the guitar", in general, limiting a players market!

Get a solid instrument you like, sounds great and leave the old stuff to the relics of time...

These are hardly analogous to basses. Those things were replaced by much more high tech offerings. Basses on the other hand, are still in the same basic form as they were 60 years ago. Some of them are almost exactly the same. And, a lot of those old Fenders sound better than the modern versions.

People have predicted a lot of things about things they thought would fade away like the buggy whip. Luckily, those people fade away...wait for it...like the buggy whip.

 

[murdockbass]

These are hardly analogous to basses. Those things were replaced by much more high tech offerings. Basses on the other hand, are still in the same basic form as they were 60 years ago. Some of them are almost exactly the same. And, a lot of those old Fenders sound better than the modern versions.

People have predicted a lot of things about things they thought would fade away like the buggy whip. Luckily, those people fade away...wait for it...like the buggy whip.

...you know, they are looking for a new CEO at Gibson and Guitar Center is on top of the world...

As Jim Morrison said in an interview during fat beard days when asked; "What do you think music will look like in 50 years?"

He replied, stroking his beard..."I think its going to be one guy and a bunch of electronic gadgets!"

Save your money and bailout some collector for a Bass you know sounds better than another affordable instrument!

Wurd up...

 

[retslock]

Been playing since “64” myself. The reason vintage guitars and cars are up in value is due to baby boomers. Retired plenty of money and trying to feel the magic of their youth one more time. Then there are the idiots.

I’m a retired boomer - where is all this money I’m supposed to have? It’s not under my mattress.

 

[retslock]

...well...

How much is a Cotton Gin worth?

How much is a Pong Game worth?

How about a Motorola Flip Phone?

How about last years CD Player...

I would not recommend any type of investment in a guitar at this point in history as there are collectors who are taking a bath on instruments they thought would go up, up, up in price. They did not see the "death of the guitar", in general, limiting a players market!

Get a solid instrument you like, sounds great and leave the old stuff to the relics of time...

Your missing the point. It’s not about the items themselves. There are no Pong cultural heroes. Nobody created anything brilliant on a Motorola phone. It’s about WHO played guitars and the mark they made on our culture. That is where the history enters the picture. Jimi Hendrix never played Pong or owned a Motorola, he played a guitar. So did Elvis, BB etc. Those guys made an impression on the whole western world and made people want to be like them. No phone ever did that.