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Is this really what they're worth?

Risking a derail, but price is not the same as value: a good, engaging 4th grade Science teacher's services are worth more than what the teacher is paid. In addition, inefficient markets & the full costs & value of a product/good/service not being measured at the right time complicates the Free Market model: classic example is pollution (let the people downstream pay the health care & cleanup costs), and education - how many of the above Science teachers' students decide to get into high-paying Science jobs? Wasn't a factor in the teachers' bonus. According to grad school admissions officers, many Physicists in the past 2 generations were inspired into the field after reading Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History of Time". There will be a lot learned from research because of that undervalued book.

I agree the price is what the market will bear, but a sucker's born every minute. Don't understand a vintage instrument collector? People can value things differently - makes a market.

Thanks for the primer on Econ 101. So what you are saying is that a bass that cost about a weeks pay back in 1962, being sold today for a 1/3 of a year’s pay is going to inspire more to become bassists? Interesting premise.

Seriously, I agree that good teachers are horrifically under valued, but this thread is not the place to be having that discussion. Better to do that over beers or an IM.
 
I have to wonder about this last part of your post though. If this were true, no antiques would have currency after the generation that grew up with them dies off. We know that's not true.

I didn't say they'd be valueless, but part of the cache and thus the market definitely has to do with things like "birth year basses" and things like. When you take those out of the equation (because no one who was around then is around any more) you by definition take a lot of pressure off demand. Since supply will likely stay about the same that means prices will go down or at least stop appreciating. They may go up again, but I imagine it will be far out in the future, when anyone investing now will probably be dead. Even if your intent is to invest for your kids/grandkids/greatgrandkids, there are so many unknown variables that that's a fool's errand. You don't know what the market will do after your dead, you don't know if your kids or grandkids might sell the thing off too soon, or toss it, or destroy it, or what have you. So if you want to buy an instrument, it should be because you really like it as an instrument and want to use it as such. Any money to be made on it down the road is a bonus and should not be counted on. Still, if you always try to buy at below or at least AT market (and never above if you can help it), you have that cushion so you won't end up holding the bag if something DOES depreciate more than expected. But even if it does, I look at that like a rental fee. So you buy at $1000, keep for 10 years and then sell at $500. That works out to $4 a month to rent (whatever). Not bad at all (less than your Netflix account). Of course if you can buy for $750 and sell for $750, then you had it for free and can use that $4/month on something else.

Do you own anything that you keep just because you like having it around?

Everything I own is because I like having it around. But I don't let myself get too hung up on fantasy quests and I pay attention to good opportunities. So while I might not always end up with precisely the thing I want (like I really want a Rivera 55-Twelve combo, but I ended up with a VHT Pitbull 50 CL because I found a great deal on one in great shape, which is also a killer amp in the same vein and form factor). Since overall that tends to save me money, it allows me to have more than I might have otherwise (which lets face it, ultimately we're all on a limited budget). In this case, a Rivera is probably cheaper than the VHT, but that just means if I want to switch, I can get what I paid out of the VHT and get the Rivera instead. I haven't lost anything by going in a slightly different direction. Point being, if you stay flexible and don't get too hung up on details, your money will take you farther, faster. I bought a Hartke bass rig as an interim setup, not because it was the best thing ever but because it was SO cheap I couldn't pass it up (and I did like it and fit my needs). I sold it within a year and nearly doubled my money selling at market prices. Nothing at all "collectible" about 10-20 year old heavy Hartke bass stuff, but I was "smart" enough to identify a good deal and jump on it when it presented itself. Because of that I made money on it and subsidized other better gear (also bought at opportune prices). I may be an anomoly because I'm a multi instrumentalist and I'm making deals across a wide variety of stuff. And it takes work because you have to watch the "market" (ie CL, ebay, reverb, etc...) every day or at least every week to know what's out there and how much people are generally paying for it so you can strike while the iron's hot. But at the end of the day, I still only buy stuff I think I'll use because I could still end up holding the bag despite making a seemingly good choice (and stuff DEFINITELY takes time to flip anyway). If you do it right, you can eventually become a de facto gear store. and subsidize a much bigger gear collection than you might otherwise have.
 
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Worth? Who knows. Good value? No.
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The response of, “ it's not worth it to me,” just makes people look petty and jealous.
"it's not worth it to me" seems like a perfectly legitimate response! i can assure you that a fender ax is not something that would make me "jealous." define "petty." thanks.

subscribed, this seems like a very interesting threadInvalid Link Removed
good luck with that! ;)

there is no meaningful logic in the pricing of a market like "vintage" instruments .. it's entirely based on what the "market will bear".
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Sorry, but there's not nearly as much correlation between intelligence and wealth as you seem to want to think there is.
What you aren't getting in almost any case is something that's better at being a bass.
:thumbsup:

a sucker's born every minute.
:thumbsup:;)
 
Thanks for the primer on Econ 101. So what you are saying is that a bass that cost about a weeks pay back in 1962, being sold today for a 1/3 of a year’s pay is going to inspire more to become bassists? Interesting premise.

Seriously, I agree that good teachers are horrifically under valued, but this thread is not the place to be having that discussion. Better to do that over beers or an IM.

That is not at all what I wrote. Read it again, any Q's send a DM
 
Really a shame about the finish. It looks nice (too nice), but as previously stated, NOT a factory finish for that year. Plus, where's the "hootenanny" strap peg? ...or hole for it? Even if it proves to be authentic, I doubt the seller gets more than $7k
 
It's funny how these collectible conversations usually have someone questioning someone else's intelligence. My guess is it's probably because they don't realize how stupid that looks.

Apparently even trying to understand the market is too much work for some. Hint: it's typically not about fantastic playability. Because... there is no standard for fantasticity of playing:D. It's not about your personal feelings about it unless you're the one making the purchase. If you can't really figure out the goalposts on collectability keep saying bright stuff. It's a staple.
;)

Hindsight tells me that many purchases that I didn't make years ago could've paid off handsomely by now... at prices many at the time thought were stupid. That's how investments can work.
 
So if you want to buy an instrument, it should be because you really like it as an instrument and want to use it as such.
Again, I agree with most of what you said in this post. However, I do think it's possible to look at musical instruments (forget Fender basses for a moment) as things that can be collected. In this sense they're like any other antique - worth exactly as much as a buyer is willing to pay on the day you list it.
Everything I own is because I like having it around. But I don't let myself get too hung up on fantasy quests and I pay attention to good opportunities.
When I asked if you own anything simply for the joy of having it around, I didn't necessarily mean gear. I was thinking specifically of art. Do you own any paintings or other artworks? I have recently purchased my first few pieces and I can't believe how much pleasure I'm getting out of simply seeing them in the house.
 
Maybe once I run out of gear to buy. But playing 3 instruments and doing live sound and recording means there's always something else on the list. Not at all opposed to art, but that's kind of a completely different thing.
 
Anyone selling anything for $11k on Craigslist can't be taken all too seriously. Why wouldn't you take something like that to a formal auction house or a reputable trader if it's legit?

High-res photos of disassembled bass with all serial numbers are an absolute must before you even think of opening discussions on dropping that much on a vintage instrument.

Some sort of written confirmation from a certified tech and a formal valuation by a respected party are definitely going to be needed too, because you're talking an amount of money that could buy a very decent used car. I bought my current car for about half of what that bass' asking price is - I checked the tires, got a full rundown by a mechanic, had a look through the engine and made sure it had its whole service history in order. Sure, ok, a bass disastrously malfunctioning will at worst make the audience leave/lose you a gig, while a car disastrously malfunctioning will at worst kill you and others, but you get my point.

If you're making an investment of this size you need to do your due diligence, and that posting is... not encouraging.

Is it worth it? Well they're rare, and that makes them collectors' items. After a certain point, it stops being about how great the bass is, and it's more about how good it looks and its history. I guess the decades might have given it some sort of extra intangible mojo, I've never tried an instrument that old, but it's all about supply and demand at the end of the day.
 
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I had a "transition" 1965 Jazz (pre CBS parts but assembled in Japan) and it was by far the most responsive instrument I ever played. Because of the rough condition I got it cheap ($500.00 in 1988) but ended up selling it (like an idiot) to pay some bills. Can't even touch one now at a reasonable price. I'll never forget it though . . like a lost love.
 
I like these old basses!

But would rather get a "vintage reissue with some modern improvements."
Which I did!
Great value.

I can understand a professional recording might want the real thing just to try to get the real tone.
 
The question of whether a bass is worth $11k depends entirely on who you are and why you'd buy it. If you're an amateur and you can afford it, God bless you. If you're a pro and you've never owned a great old instrument you owe it to yourself to put some money aside and at least try a bass like that and see if it works for you. I'd also ignore the finish, the price, to some extent the condition, and look for THE instrument. You'll know it when you play it. You'll be transfixed. There's no other reason to buy an old Fender.

I have two '64 Jazz basses, one I've had since 1977 and one I got about ten years or so ago. I didn't pay anything like that kind of money for them, but they also weren't cheap. My two basses are great instruments - the one I got in '77 is the best bass I've ever played and the best-sounding bass I've ever heard. To me. It made my career possible. I also had a mint '65 L-series Jazz that was a total dog as an instrument, but was absolutely perfect and I was happy to sell it to a collector for what I thought was a ridiculous amount of money and he thought was a bargain.

Physically my old basses feel like part of my body. They're both light, I can play them all day long, and they always sound good if I play good. My first Jazz, the one I bought in '77 was a revelation. The moment I picked it up and held it against my body it screamed at me to take it home, and I did. That's only happened to me with one other instrument, the Jazz I bought ten years ago, and I've had a lot of basses. I also have an old P-bass that is a great instrument, and I use it where it's more appropriate, but I prefer jazz basses. The only modern bass I've played that came close was a Sadowsky I bought when he first started making instruments. I sold it when I got the second old Jazz, and I regret that now.
 
I own a January 63 Jazz and a 64. Both my rosewood fret boards look almost like ebony with age and use. This neck looks virtually unplayed and I would also say that it is not the correct sort of rosewood.
The body looks unmarked.........you would expect to see something in the way of abuse after 50 odd years. Tuners look aged.........but not the neck or board???.........suspicious!
 
Even as I feel moved to write this, I'm sure it will not have much effect, but here goes . . .

I would ask all TalkBass members to realize the utter futility of any post that calls into question the value of any instrument.

Things are worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Period. Your opinion on that is completely irrelevant.

The idiosyncratic nature of basses and bass players means that we have more than the usual amount of fodder for discussions about relative merits and values of our instruments, but why beat the same poor, long-deceased horse to death over and over again with variations on "This bass sold for THIS MUCH, how crazy is that?"

So let's save space here for really useful discussions . . . like how much that classic ol' SVT tube head is REALLY worth!
 
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High-res photos of disassembled bass with all serial numbers are an absolute must before you even think of opening discussions on dropping that much on a vintage instrument.

+1

a bass disastrously malfunctioning

will at worst make the audience leave/lose you a gig, while a car disastrously malfunctioning will at worst kill you and others, but you get my point.

A plugged in bass can kill you, too.